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Old 26-07-2010, 06:48   #61
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Recently I passed through Palm Beach and Fort Lauderdale on the ICW with my 22-year-old daughter. I hadn't made that trip in over 10 years. I was astonished at the megayachts and megahomes that had sprouted up in that time frame. So I told my daughter, "Listen, you don't realize the social phenomenon that you've lived through in your lifetime, where there was this explosion of wealth at the very top end of the income spectrum, and it eventually led to a financial meltdown that is impacting all of us."

After a few hours, she said, "Oh dad, will you just shut up? You sound like a bitter old man with that stuff."

On the trip back, my crew was a friend my age who had made millions during the boom. We talked about the same subject, and he didn't have any problem with my observations.

Perhaps the real topic of this thread is a disconnect that is developing between work, worthiness, and money in our society overall. I don't mean this in any political way. It may just be a symptom of the Information Age. Is making your living off a Paypal button on a website really that much different than making hundreds of millions working on Wall Street?

Disclosure: I used to work for an international hedge fund. Now I'm a teacher. When I first started teaching ten years ago, I phoned my aunt, a long-time teacher. I told her I was working just as hard at my new job as I did at my old one, but I was making only one-twentieth the salary. And I'll leave it up to you do decide where I was making a more worthwhile contribution to society.

IF a disconnect really is developing between hard work and earning money, it's not necessarily a bad thing. It's just a new thing, and that's bound to be uncomfortable and disorienting for all of us. But I think that disconnect may be part of our reality now. How else could you sustain a discussion board dedicated to ordinary folks sailing around on yachts without a job? This is a hobby that used to be only for the truly bohemian and unusual-- or for the spectacularly rich. Now you can't swing a cat at a cocktail party without hitting someone who is planning to do it for a while or has already done it.

And here's the really strange and disorienting thing: as several other threads on this board have recently documented, it seems people are going cruising and playing on boats with either very little money, a modest nest egg, or lots of money. What's up with that? Is a disconnect developing between money and value in society overall?

If so, it strikes at some of the core values most of us were raised with, and that may be why these kinds of discussions sometimes get so parsimonious here.
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Old 26-07-2010, 06:55   #62
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Tia Bu,
you get extra thread points for using the word "parsimonious"!
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Old 26-07-2010, 07:11   #63
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Originally Posted by Tia Bu View Post
Perhaps the real topic of this thread is a disconnect that is developing between work, worthiness, and money in our society overall
Errrr. I don't think that is anything new. Perhaps the change is a wider realisation of that fact (not universal - as demonstrated by your daughter, but she's young yet, maybe even still also has some notions that things also ought to be "fair" ).


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I told her I was working just as hard at my new job as I did at my old one, but I was making only one-twentieth the salary. And I'll leave it up to you do decide where I was making a more worthwhile contribution to society.
I don't think the answer is as straightforward as it seems. And probably along the lines that both are needed - no matter that one is more distasteful than the other (to some).

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How else could you sustain a discussion board dedicated to ordinary folks sailing around on yachts without a job? This is a hobby that used to be only for the truly bohemian and unusual-- or for the spectacularly rich.
It's edikation Folks no longer get taught their place, and slowly learn that any limits on their ambitions are mostly artificial. Even a lack of money. To overcome financial poverty you first need to educate away poverty of ambition and then poverty of opportunity can be tackled yourself. A lot of truth in the old saying: "The Lord helps those who help themselves" Even for a hardcore Atheist like me - but I am also an arch pragmatist, just like the Pope

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If so, it strikes at some of the core values most of us were raised with, and that may be why these kinds of discussions sometimes get so parsimonious here.
Or acrimonious?
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Old 26-07-2010, 07:14   #64
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Or acrimonious?
Okay, now you're just looking for extra points...
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Old 26-07-2010, 07:15   #65
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Or acrimonious?
Oops! What you said!
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Old 26-07-2010, 07:34   #66
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Oops! What you said!
Ok, I cheated a little bit (double checked that parsimonious didn't also have an obscure usage ).
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Old 26-07-2010, 09:55   #67
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Tia Bu, that was a beautiful post #61. Thank you.

My usual rambling feedback:

What you described about values, hard work, money...I don't think this is anything new, but is repeated in history from time to time. The prelude to downfall in a society seems to be an explosion in "decadence" and a motivation released as desperation. The decadence here is in the shape of what you described in greed and the pyramid/ponzi economy that has just passed and continues to haunt. We've seen waves of bubble economies in this society which were only clues that this was coming. I'm not sure this society will ever recover, and I am pretty sure a lot of those yachts and houses stand empty now.

But on a more positive note, historically, every great social catastrophe or change - recession and the like - shakes people up in their belief system and their relationship to society vs their own desires. Some people say "whatever" and rack up their cc on their boats for a while. Some come back changed or when they realize that isn't the answer. Some stay crooks. Some die or fail because they never learned that carelessness/mindlessness and nature don't work, and nature can find any weakness. Some never come back but find a new life in another society. Some start new societies. And a few never left and try to make a difference in society.

Get this, think back to where you were in 1974 (if you are as old as me). The world population in 1974 was approximately 4 billion people. Today its approx 7 billion. That's almost 2x. Add the globalization of an economy, and mass communication, and no wonder you see more people out there and with a parasitic attitude.

Add in global warming and climate change, war, famine, emerging diseases and contaminants, natural cycles - seem to all point to a Mathusian Catastrophic repeat about to occur - my favorite being the year 1347 - ahh what a year to remember. I'm so sentimental and sensitive.

Malthusian catastrophe - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The only good thing about 1347 is that after a few years of living hell, the renaissance occurred...
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Old 27-07-2010, 21:46   #68
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Another boat name: Malthusian Catastrophe

It won't be long before someone takes that boat name and goes sailing. And what better place could you be when there is a Malthusian catastrophe.
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Old 27-07-2010, 21:55   #69
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hey that is kinda cool!

What if you had an emergency:

"MAYDAY MAYDAY THiS IS MALTHUSIAN CATASTROPHE!!!"
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Old 28-07-2010, 02:44   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SaltyMonkey View Post
Tia Bu, that was a beautiful post #61. Thank you.

My usual rambling feedback:

What you described about values, hard work, money...I don't think this is anything new, but is repeated in history from time to time. The prelude to downfall in a society seems to be an explosion in "decadence" and a motivation released as desperation. The decadence here is in the shape of what you described in greed and the pyramid/ponzi economy that has just passed and continues to haunt. We've seen waves of bubble economies in this society which were only clues that this was coming. I'm not sure this society will ever recover, and I am pretty sure a lot of those yachts and houses stand empty now.

But on a more positive note, historically, every great social catastrophe or change - recession and the like - shakes people up in their belief system and their relationship to society vs their own desires. Some people say "whatever" and rack up their cc on their boats for a while. Some come back changed or when they realize that isn't the answer. Some stay crooks. Some die or fail because they never learned that carelessness/mindlessness and nature don't work, and nature can find any weakness. Some never come back but find a new life in another society. Some start new societies. And a few never left and try to make a difference in society.

Get this, think back to where you were in 1974 (if you are as old as me). The world population in 1974 was approximately 4 billion people. Today its approx 7 billion. That's almost 2x. Add the globalization of an economy, and mass communication, and no wonder you see more people out there and with a parasitic attitude.

Add in global warming and climate change, war, famine, emerging diseases and contaminants, natural cycles - seem to all point to a Mathusian Catastrophic repeat about to occur - my favorite being the year 1347 - ahh what a year to remember.

Malthusian catastrophe - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The only good thing about 1347 is that after a few years of living hell, the renaissance occurred...
I really hate agreeing with you Salty, but I do...

Except for...

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I'm so sentimental and sensitive.
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Old 28-07-2010, 04:21   #71
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Sheeesh, what a load over whether someone would like to make some spare change from their hard work writing a blog. Get a grip.

Comparing bumfuzzle to wall street traders? I didn't know LSD had made a comeback.
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Old 28-07-2010, 07:02   #72
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I've slowly succumb to the Paypal button, anything that helps me achieve my dream must be considered in my plans.

It does work though as I have posted many a penny on other peoples good causes.
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Old 28-07-2010, 07:50   #73
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The Bumfuzzles are not the first to add a paypal button to their crusing site. I recall a trio of young sailors who had a "buy us a beer" paypal button, wherein they would use your $5 to taste a local beer and toast your generosity. If I recall correctly they would send you a photo of themselves in some exotic port drinking your beer. Clever I thought......

Few here would hesitate to drop $5 on a sailing magazine. The BFs write well and their story is entertaining. So do the contributors of Lats and Atts and Crusing World. The difference is you have a choice to pay for the Bumfuzzle's entertainment (unless you shoplift your sailing magazines).

I have worked hard for every dime I've accumulated and still the cruising kitty is wanting. Maybe if I were clever I could have worked smart and not hard. So personally, if the Bumfuzzles can fund their adventures in creative ways I say more power to them.
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Old 28-07-2010, 08:06   #74
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Look around

Here in my city, East Coast USA, many traffic intersections have folks standing holding begging boards...claiming anything from "Homeless" to "Out of work".....all day long, every day, they wait on drivers handing them cash.
It used to irritate me...but then I realized...what's the problem? If they "market" themselves, select a good location and put in the hours..........and if drivers CHOOSE to give them THEIR cash....what's the problem?
The driver get's the feel good reward....so there is an exchange of value.
It's not like there's any scam, dishonesty, Wall St ethics going on here.
Simple. Please give ME some of YOUR money.
We still live in a (semi) free country...........some of you guys on this board seem to forget that.
All power to the PayPal button!
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Old 28-07-2010, 08:42   #75
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How is this any different than writing a book about their sailing experience and selling it like countless others have done? With this format one gets to read the story as it unfolds, decide if they view a value to their work of creating this story and making it available for free, then donate if they wish. I also remember the SohCahToa group doing the same thing and I thought it was a great idea, also a great way to involve the reader with the adventure (like stated above they would take a photo of them drinking the cocktail you choose).
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