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Old 14-07-2008, 10:03   #16
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Opinions are a lot like wives (partners?).
Notwithstanding that some are more presentable and/or useful than others; we seem to be most attached to our own.

A few of us would be advised to more carefully consider our choice (of both).
Ok, being a wife, I know there is something wrong with this post somewhere...but damn if I can figure out what it is.

But being a wife, I am sure I will figure it out.
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Old 14-07-2008, 10:08   #17
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Wot name,
I am not sure if this is helpful or not.....I am saying "I" would like to hear from people who have actually "done it".... In my experience of life , they have said the least and made the most sense...
OK, maybe I am saying too much and making no sense .

I agree with your premise that "those who have done it..... make the most sense" although I am not sure if the ones "who say the least" would be found posting on CF too often. By definition, they aren't going to be posting - .

To demostrate the point I was making let me use a fictitious example of someone posting a question say of the best paint to use on the hull of a steel boat.

Now because I have owned, refitted, cruised and lived aboard a steel boat for 5 or 6 years and had used a couple of paints that worked OK (ie "done it"), I would probably post something like "in my OPINION, such and such paint is the best".
However if in addition to having "done it", I also knew a lot about paint, was say a professional steel boat painter and could prove the science of my choice of paint, I would more likely post " such and such is the BEST paint".
'Cause then, in my mind, it ain't opinion any more.
And if I had never owned a steel boat and never painted one, then I wouldn't post regardless of what I might have read.

Anyway back to your post, some stuff on CF is technicial, some stuff is philosophical, some stuff is theory, some stuff is experience, some stuff is a bit unpleasant and some stuff is just chewing the fat. Some days I like some bits and other days I don't (and some days I think I should get off the computer and get back to the refit) - all a bit like the cruising life in my opinion.

BTW, is winter slowing done your progress on the boat?
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Old 14-07-2008, 10:59   #18
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Although there are some extremely intelligent people here. No single one of us is as smart as all of us!!!!

P.S. Gord,

I think isbolick is going to get you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! hahahahahaha
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Old 14-07-2008, 11:39   #19
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Originally Posted by isbolick View Post
Ok, being a wife, I know there is something ...
... But being a wife, I am sure I will figure it out.
Perhaps you'll find that you're one of the more presentable and useful mates.

Quote:
Originally Posted by imagine2frolic View Post
... P.S. Gord,
I think isbolick is going to get you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! hahahahahaha
We've both already been "got" (both married).
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Old 14-07-2008, 12:09   #20
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Opinions, Everyone has them, some are just better than others. And sometimes its just better to keep it to yourself. OK back to sailing or fixing boats or cruise planning or......
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Old 14-07-2008, 12:39   #21
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Perhaps you'll find that you're one of the more presentable and useful mates.
Oh hells yeah.

And that's his story and he's sticking to it.
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Old 14-07-2008, 13:07   #22
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isbolick,

You have to be more fun than a barrel of monkeys.....EXCELLENT REPLY

see what I mean Gord.......LOLOLOLOLOL
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Old 14-07-2008, 18:52   #23
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Quote:
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....
We've both already been "got" (both married).
And in keeping with the spirit of the OP, I am guessing you have both done it, rather than just expressing an opinion about doing it.
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Old 14-07-2008, 21:14   #24
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<sigh>

OK - one issue with experience is that it can lead to the blinders being set on. One thing that has changed dramatically in flying is the whole issue of cockpit (or crew) resource management. This is the process whereby the captain can (and should) receive information from all sources on the flight deck. Then a considered decision is made. It also has to do with division of labor and a whole bunch of other stuff.

I have found that there is a "skipper is always right" attitude still prevailing in sailing. Instead of training the crew and relying on the crew a lot of skippers are still top down "leaders." This creates big egos, a "not invented here" attitude and can limit new ideas and new thinking.

So what's this got to do with opinion? There may be general agreement that going to sea without intimate knowledge of stars and celestial navigation is suicidal because that's the way we have been doing it since man went to sea.

"Hell, I did ocean crossings in 1972 and didn't need a new fangeld GPS. They will probably get switched off tomorrow and you will all immediately die if you don't have a sextant and know how to use it! So sometimes, there are people with lot's of experience, but the experience is 20+ years out of date."

We also periodically have heavy weather drogue/warp/sea anchor threads. There are lot's of members here with actual experience setting these devices. But even they don't agree. I haven't done it and enjoy reading about strategies but what I have come to learn (opinion starts here) is that there is no one strategy. Be prepared with several strategies and set the one that seems most appropriate.

So is my opinion less valid than "Bob" who says, "I always set a drogue and run away" or Bill who says, "I always set an anchor and head to wind" or Mary who says, "I always heave to and go to bed" or Alan who says, "I throw 600 foot warps out and run away"? And if these 4 sailors experience says their way has "always" worked for them, say 4 times each, should they never consider another strategy? Is it boat dependent?

These discussions have to delve into opinion. I have an opinion formed not from experience but from reading and discussing the experience of others. If I don't air my opinions and engage in defending them against scrutiny of those who have practiced actual tactics then I am doing myself a disservice when I do go to sea and this forum would be less valuable.

Ok - 2 cents off....
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Old 15-07-2008, 00:36   #25
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Interesting thread.

I have lots of opinions, some say too many.... Ok my wife says that and as all us blokes know women are never wrong, or at least that's my wife opinion. My reading of the 'facts' on that has me with a differing opinion.

I've cruised a fair bit but delivered and raced across oceans a lot more. I also deal on a daily basis with many who have cruised more than I. Due to this I think it is often hard to distinguish between some opinion and some facts.

Take Dans comment just above, a good example. 4 people who know the facts as they pertain to them and at the same time 4 people with opinions based on marginal fact. I say marginal as often someone will have only tried one or 2 items or techniques.

Dare I mention the dreaded 'A' word as in anchors as another example. In many peoples experience anchor A has done them very well, so in their opinion Anchor A is best and many will report it as such in a way that can often appear as fact. The same applies to people with anchor B. But then you get the likes of me for example who have done extensive work on and with anchors. I will often be told "anchor c is the best and that's a fact", when I know in fact anchor c will easily be cleaned up by anchor X.

So we end up with 2 'facts' of which one is based on facts and one on opinion. All tricky stuff but strangely both can be highly valid depending on how you look at it.

I think the key to forums such as CF is reading everything and blend all the bits that make sense and 'fit' together well into an opinion. Sometimes hard facts will appear and help forming the opinion a bit easier.

But at the end of the day everyone has an opinion and 98% of them are valid to someone somewhere. The other 2% are often just that loony they appear that way and can be discounted.

Another key to forums like this is being able to read something you really don't like and take a breath before replying. I think many replies are dome quickly in the heat of the moment and those are the ones that usually stir it all up. I am as guilty, possibly more so, as the next guy or gal at this. When invited to help with CF I sat and pondered my QRWTS (quick reply without thinking syndrome) and how that would conflict with my role as a helper here. I now make a concious effort to read, see red, take a breath and think for a moment before replying.

So I'd suggest that often opinion and fact can live very happily side by side and almost be regarded as the same thing. But often they don't. I suppose you have to read and form an opinion on whether poster X's opinion is just that or fact. Tricky.

Due to the wide range of knowledge levels I deal each day I do tend to say "In my (or whomevers) opinion...." Often I'll even say "We found XX so in our opinion" in an effort to differentiate between hard fact and an opinion, otherwise know sometimes as a wild guess.
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Old 15-07-2008, 01:41   #26
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Experience and opinion.

Hi,
Common thread ( no pun intended ) here is that we really do have a lot of opinionated minds running amok.But hey what a lot of good opinions. I wouldn't like to see it change it for the world except when they get downright narky and a bit spiteful .Haven't tried any other forums yet but I will just to see how they stack up.
The sharing of information is what I am looking for.
If there are other new members out there like me who have only been around for a few months think back to when you joined up or started lurking around the forum trying to glean info on whatever you needed to pick up.
How much more do you know now -OK- even about pirates.?
More? Yeah me too thanks to the members who are willing to share their experiences or opinions

A good quote from GMac
"Another key to forums like this is being able to read something you really don't like and take a breath before replying"
A bit of advice well worth noting and a piece I am going to consider too as we can all fall into that trap.

On a positive note I am a real happy member today. I totally went outside my comfort zone ( and bank balance ) and purchased a 42ft Adams yacht this morning for a "song " as they say.I now have a 40 ft rust bucket to rebuild and a real nice Adams to finish off ( fit out and minor works ).Will post some photos when the "boss" downloads them for me.
I feel a bit .disloyal to "rusty " but I think it is going to be taking a back seat in the corner up the back of the "yard " for a while.I'll get out there quicker with the new gal I think as not too much to do to float her.

Thanks to all for your help so far.

Regards
JC
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Old 15-07-2008, 03:12   #27
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To add to Gord’s wise words you must also add in the dynamics of the liquid state we attempt to travel in and all the variances of weather and craft.
That has led me to conclude that few decisions are made based purely on fact.

“We assign a moment to decision, to dignify the process as a timely result of rational and conscious thought. But decisions are made of kneaded feelings; they are more often a lump than a sum”
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Old 15-07-2008, 04:57   #28
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Hi all,
thanks for the replys. It has given me a lot to think about.

cheers
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Old 15-07-2008, 05:00   #29
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...So I'd suggest that often opinion and fact can live very happily side by side and almost be regarded as the same thing. But often they don't. I suppose you have to read and form an opinion on whether poster X's opinion is just that or fact...
"Opinion" and "Fact"... I'd add another category: "Speculation". I've seen numerous posts in which the poster is trying to answer a question based not on his own experience, nor his own learned knowledge of facts, but on "logic". Faulty logic. This seems to happen most often when the discussion involves the sciences. The poster has a little bit of knowledge, but not enough to get to the right answer, however that doesn't hold him back in the least.

Beware of the Speculator mascarading as a someone who really knows what he's talking about.


p.s. congrats on the new boat, J.C.!
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Old 15-07-2008, 05:48   #30
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Hi all,
thanks for the replys. It has given me a lot to think about.
cheers

Thinking (what a concept !)
is the art & science of perceiving, processing, analyzing, and evaluating information; with the intent to engage in reasoning, problem solving, and decision making. Thinking should be the basis upon which we form opinions.
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