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Old 21-10-2007, 17:47   #16
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Ummmm... I think I need clarification on this statement. A shootdown?? Which Nasa document was that information released in? And I must have missed the big Martian Weapons deal.

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It's bad enough that NASA tries to cover up the Martian shoot-down of our satellites by claiming NASA labs got their inches and millimeters mixed up.[g]
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Old 21-10-2007, 18:28   #17
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Rick, something like 1/3 of all satellites NASA has sent to Mars have been total failures. Rather than say NASA is barely 2/3 competent, I would rather say (somewhat tongue in cheek) that so far the Martians have simply done a good job of shooting down 1/3 of the invading UFOs from Earth. (What, aren't you an HG Wells fan?!)

I mean, what makes more sense to you: The best brain trust in the leading (cough, cough) nation in the world screws up 1/3 of the time? Or, the Martians have a really good planetary defense system? [vbg]

NASA, of course, would be unable to release such information under national security concerns. They'd have to come up with clever excuses for the failures like "Well, some of our folks used metric rules and some just forgot and used the inch side."

I say only partly tongue in cheek because for many years, the official US statement on the sinking of the Lusitania was that she was an innocent passenger liner carrying NO CONTRABAND OR MUNITIONS. That was the official line until after WW2, AFAIK.

Meanwhile, the shipping manifests and the longshoremen who hand loaded every bit of munitions into Lustania *knew* that she was carrying contraband, and KNEW that the Germans had every right to sink her under the rules of war--as they had warned the US that they would do, if munitions were loaded aboard.

Or, the "Peublo Incident" (gee, turns out the ship wasn't where we swore it was) or the Gulf of Tonkin Incident (turns out the entire event was a fictitious amalgam of at least two separate events, at least as bad as the "We know there are WMDs in Bagdad" routine.).

So, yeah, rather than believing the top staff at NASA are incompetent bufoons, I'm just going to assume this is business as usual, my government is protecting me from the really really scary news that the Martians are still up there--or at least, they've still got an effective unmanned defense system that we haven't beaten. [VBG]


Back to China and Japan...A search on "The Rape of Nan-King" and other recent pre-WW2 Chinese/Japanese relations should explain a great deal about both. Christianity is a sad new addition to both nations, and while the Japanese may beleive they are superior to the world (and worship the Emperor, direct descendant of the Sun God King) the Chinese are in some ways even worse, indoctrinated for so many thousand years to believe that they are the Middle Kingdom, standing between the gods/heavens and all the animals and barbarians in the rest of the world.

Do not forget that at one time the Chinese apparently had the greatest navy in the world, with ships a thousand feet long. Lots of recent achaeology has been done confirming this and there is a lot of conflict over just how far those ships got--quite possibly to Australia and the west coast of the US. Then the Chinese emperors ordered BURN THEM ALL and cut off communications with all the animals and barbarians, to preserve the purity of the Middle Kingdom (Chin-Hua, China, whatever you want to call the seven kingdoms united by long fierce war into one.)

Difference between the two ethics? Well, to the Japanese it would be shameful to produce a piece of crap, that would be a shame on the craftsman who made it. To the Chinese? Hey, the hairy wide-eyes wanted it dirt cheap and don't care about anything else--give 'em what they asked for.

In many ways, the Chinese are just playing our own 1800's industrail robber-baron games against us. Karma, nyeh?
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Old 22-10-2007, 02:11   #18
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In my youth, “Japanese” was synonymous with cheap & shoddy copies of western goods.
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Old 22-10-2007, 07:59   #19
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And how long did it take them to figure out the ancient town of "Usa" was a really good place to make things in, for sale to the US market?
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Old 22-10-2007, 18:47   #20
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And how long did it take them to figure out the ancient town of "Usa" was a really good place to make things in, for sale to the US market?
Quite a while.
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Old 22-10-2007, 18:54   #21
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I agree with you on many levels regarding the off topic issues about the Government lies and cover-ups.. Nice to see that people do know about the real truth about matters.
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Old 23-10-2007, 05:51   #22
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I don't understand the reference to "the ancient town of "Usa" - help?
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Old 23-10-2007, 09:14   #23
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I don't understand the reference to "the ancient town of "Usa" - help?
"There have been claims that products made in this town and exported to the US in the 1960s carried the label "MADE IN USA, JAPAN", for it to have an appearance that the product is "Made in USA". It is, however a myth that Japan renamed the town "Usa" following World War II so that goods exported from Japan could be labelled as such. [1] The town had this name long before the war, at least from 8th century, and is not where the majority of Japanese industry is located."

The foregoing is from the Wikipedia entry, here:

Usa, ĹŚita - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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Old 23-10-2007, 10:41   #24
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Don't forget, or for you who never knew, the Japanese got a bad reputation for their shoddy products in the early fifties. It embarrassed them and they set up government agencies to monitor and test export products. Companies hired quality consultants that American companies did not want and most of us remember what happened. The same will probably happen with Chinese products, in fact according to some of the boating magazines it has already happened. A recent boat review I read talked about how the manufacturing fiber glass work, the fit and finish of the yacht being reviewed had improved in a very short time.

Someone mentioned that America's influence is political, not financial. WRONG. America's influence has always been business related and the politics has only been there to protect that interest. Have you never heard the phrase "In the best interest of America", meaning don't screw with our companies.. Well, it's very interesting to note how China has eclipsed America's interests in Africa and Asia. China owns America and will soon be the most powerful nation on Earth, if they aren't already.
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Old 23-10-2007, 10:55   #25
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[QUOTE=DeepFrz;107174 China owns America and will soon be the most powerful nation on Earth, if they aren't already.[/QUOTE]

They can't own America until they follow correct human rights and ecology issues and to do that they would have to rework their whole government. Then China would become part of America!

Once a culture has lived in advanced humanity and technology it would be difficult to regress.
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Old 23-10-2007, 11:25   #26
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Someone mentioned that America's influence is political, not financial. WRONG. America's influence has always been business related and the politics has only been there to protect that interest.
Except that we now have an administration of fanatics who have taken a cold war policy trend to a new level. These people believe that our most important product is democracy and we can achieve prosperity by exporting it. They don't make trade deals; they make trade concessions in return for our 'partner's' promise to lighten up on persecuting dissidents or make political reforms.
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Old 23-10-2007, 11:29   #27
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Someone mentioned that America's influence is political, not financial. WRONG. America's influence has always been business related and the politics has only been there to protect that interest. Have you never heard the phrase "In the best interest of America", meaning don't screw with our companies.
I believe you may be referring to an earlier post of mine, Freeze, in which I was responding to a post of Sean Sullivan, both included below:
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On my end, I find it unfortunate that nobody is willing to step up to the plate and try to preserve our standing in the world, or allow a few dollars less profit to ensure the future of the country.

Greedy idiots, most Americans are... greedy, short sighted idiots who don't care about anything but themselves (not even their kids or grandkids).
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I don't think it's a matter of greed, though, and our standing in the world, to me, is political, not economic. Repairing the world's perception of the US will probably take an ending of American military intervention, and a lot of concerted, positive outreach. It could take generations.
I don't disagree with your point, Freeze - American economic interests have always been intertwined with American political interests. However, in the context of my reply to Sean's post, I was only trying to state that the loss of respect and stature in the eyes of many (most?) of the world's non-Americans, is political, not economic. It was my interpretation of Sean's phrase, "our [America's] standing in the world."

American economic power has suffered some diminishment over the past decade (beginning with the meltdown in technology stocks), but it is as nothing compared to the loss of political gravitas. I won't list the numerous and varied reasons that I think led to this loss, but anyone with even a passing familiarity with world news can compose their own list.

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Old 23-10-2007, 12:07   #28
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Gord-
There has long been debate about "apparently" japanese goods coming in to the US marked "MADE IN USA" in all uppercase letters, as opposed to a more proper "Made in the the U.S. of A." or "U.S.A."
The town of Usa is a real town on Kyushu Island, in Japan, which existed long before there was any question about export stickers. Where what goods may have some from...Ah, well, origami your legs under this silly excuse for a table, have another glass of decent imported Scotch (even the Japanese have realized saki is best left for marinating fish) and we can put out hypotheticals all night.[g]
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Old 23-10-2007, 13:19   #29
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Except that we now have an administration of fanatics who have taken a cold war policy trend to a new level. These people believe that our most important product is democracy and we can achieve prosperity by exporting it. They don't make trade deals; they make trade concessions in return for our 'partner's' promise to lighten up on persecuting dissidents or make political reforms.

The "administration" isn't doing anything that the opposition party is not also supporting, all rhetoric aside. The uni-party system is functioning just fine.

Americans these days have forgotten rule #1 about politicians: If you want to know what they stand for, pay no attention to what they say and instead focus only on how they vote.

The US does not manufacture nor export "Democracy". Such a Govt. concept is an intangible that cannot be manufactured nor exported nor even given by one nation to another. It can only be nurtured and grown organically.

The US today has a single overwhelming product for the world: DEBT. That is what we make and what we export.

100 years from now when folks are looking back at the 21st century it will be defined as China's Time. China will be the dominant global superpower. The US will be much like Spain is today. We will be a first world nation of secondary importance, unable to play at the table of world leaders but with a rich history of being a Global Superpower.



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Old 23-10-2007, 13:50   #30
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The US today has a single overwhelming product for the world: DEBT. That is what we make and what we export.

100 years from now when folks are looking back at the 21st century it will be defined as China's Time. China will be the dominant global superpower. The US will be much like Spain is today. We will be a first world nation of secondary importance, unable to play at the table of world leaders but with a rich history of being a Global Superpower.
Well stated, Terry.

Another way of putting it, of course, is that the US exports inflation. Ironically, as the dollar devalues, we will be importing that same inflation back into our economy.

The other significant American export is war materiel; i.e. the weapons of war, and associated equipment and supplies.

One thing I find amusing is that some people who speak derogatorily of China's manufacturing abilities, are often the same ones who extol the virtues of Taiwan's manufacturing sector. Or they laud Hong Kong's financial expertise (and deservedly so), then claim that the Chinese are backward primitives in financial matters.

It is as if they perceive a "Chinese Wall" that keeps one group of Chinese from comingling with another.

The only thing keeping the mainland Chinese from reclaiming Taiwan is the 130 kilometers of the Taiwan Strait, and the 2008 Summer Olympics. After the Games conclude it might be wise to vacation somewhere other than Taiwan.

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