NOAA report: 10,000 Containers List Annually

[avb3]

Interesting read, especially page 15 that outlined what happens after a container is list from a ship.

http://t.co/JDb1EOxFMv

[MarkJ]

675 containers lost per year on average, not 10,000

Based on the survey results, the World Shipping Council estimates that on average there are approximately 350 containers lost at sea each year, not counting catastrophic events. When one counts the catastrophic losses, an average total loss per year of approximately 675 containers was observed.

Total industry losses obviously vary from year to year, but these numbers are well below the 2,000 to 10,000 per year that regularly appear publicly, and represent a very small fraction of container loads shipped each year.2 Nevertheless, the industry continues to pursue measures to reduce the number of containers lost overboard to zero.

http://www.worldshipping.org/industr...ard__Final.pdf

[avb3]

From the report:

" The International Maritime Organization, governments, and marine insurers have estimated that up to 10,000 shipping containers may fall from cargo ships annually (Podsada 2001; Standley 2003; Hohn 2011; IMO 2004; BBC 2010; ITTS 2011; Countryman and McDaniel 2011). "

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[Mike OReilly]

Interesting, and a bit scary. The idea that these icebergs can float for weeks is disturbing enough, but the fact that it is not known how many are lost each year is what's most damning.

I find it hard to believe shippers don't know what their losses are. The range cited is 350/year up to 10,000/per year. Since shippers get paid based on delivering things, and suffer costs in the form of failed contracts, insurance and liability, I find it hard to believe they don't know exactly what their loss rates are.

[DotDun]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

Interesting, and a bit scary. The idea that these icebergs can float for weeks is disturbing enough, but the fact that it is not known how many are lost each year is what's most damning.

I find it hard to believe shippers don't know what their losses are. The range cited is 350/year up to 10,000/per year. Since shippers get paid based on delivering things, and suffer costs in the form of failed contracts, insurance and liability, I find it hard to believe they don't know exactly what their loss rates are.

Would you admit to how many you lose a year? Kind of bad for business to publish such numbers.

I'll bet their insurance companies know how many are lost each year.

[delmarrey]

Goto page 18.
It seems the shipping industry is polluting the oceans more then anyone else.
Why can't they design and stack containers like hay bails, crisscrossed, something a farmer would know. As a teen I remember stacking bails 10 high on a flatbed and then loading them in a barn to the rafters.

Or why can't they run cables over the stacks to secure them to the deck. I guess it's all about the money, forget the oceans.

[MarkJ]

And i cant get any of those resources to come up.

But when they are talking about specific examples, like the Bay Of Biscay, the numbers over the 15 years are very low considering its one of the most stormy parts of the shipping world.

Further, the ship that was sued fir $3 million environmental dammage for 15 lost containers means at 10,000 lost per year lisbilities would be around $20 billion per year.
Governments would be tracking every container lost if they thought they could get that much for them.


On the whole its a good report, unfortunately written over emotivly.

Good grist for the cruiser mill to: makes them worry about heading to sea with 10,000 containers floating put there waiting to get them.... But the reality is the numbers are much lower and they are lost in winter, or hurricane conditions which are both times cruisers are not cruising. And by time the cruising season starts most containers will have sunk.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by DotDun

Would you admit to how many you lose a year? Kind of bad for business to publish such numbers. I'll bet their insurance companies know how many are lost each year.

That's my point. They do know, they just choose not to share the info, probably for fear of $$$ loss. Since companies only respond to the push and pull of $$$$ ("market forces") this is all the more reason to compel this kind of information be publicly available.

Originally Posted by MarkJ

...But the reality is the numbers are much lower and they are lost in winter, or hurricane conditions which are both times cruisers are not cruising. And by time the cruising season starts most containers will have sunk.

I agree with your reasoned assessment Mark. Panic is not required. Good information is required.

Originally Posted by delmarrey

It seems the shipping industry is polluting the oceans more then anyone else.
Why can't they design and stack containers like hay bails, crisscrossed, something a farmer would know. As a teen I remember stacking bails 10 high on a flatbed and then loading them in a barn to the rafters.

Or why can't they run cables over the stacks to secure them to the deck. I guess it's all about the money, forget the oceans.

Yup ... it's all about $$$$. Make it more costly to pollute and shippers will improve their environmental actions. As long as they can externalize the cost of poor design, there will be no incentive to improve.

BTW, we will all pay more for our Chinese crap by increasing the cost of shipping.

[delmarrey]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

BTW, we will all pay more for our Chinese crap by increasing the cost of shipping.

IMO that would be a good thing. Maybe other countries would not be so dependent on China's products and start producing their own AGAIN.

[Cheechako]

If the USCG would get involved and deem too high a stack a "patently unsafe condition" maybe it could be solved. "oh you came all the way from China with that? guess what, you are not allowed in US waters with it"
Lotsa luck getting that to happen though.

[delmarrey]

This is a world wide problem. The USCG would have very little impact on the whole world. And it would be just another cost to the US public for training, and monitoring every container ship that enters US waters.

Until there is a major event off the US coast the public is blind to what's happening. It needs to get in all the news sources and kept after. Look how fast the rage over 9-11 died out.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by delmarrey

IMO that would be a good thing. Maybe other countries would not be so dependent on China's products and start producing their own AGAIN.

Whole heartedly agreed

[avb3]

Went shopping with a friend in Florida for fridge, stove and microwave.

All were built by GE in the USA and actually less with equivalent or more features than Asian built ones.

I was very surprised, but on reflection, with rising wages in China and shipping costs on larger items, I could see it making sense.

It is good to see. I doubt we will see smaller items making the transition back soon though.

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[MarkJ]

I doubt many modern countries want much manufacturing. Putting lids on jars is not much of a job.

Back to the containers.... Before people start yelling for laws we have to find out exactly what the correct numbers of lost containers are. It should be able to be done pretty exactly. If its 675 its no problem.... If its 10,000 then it is a problem.

[transmitterdan]

If it were 10,000 per an mum the insurance industry would take care of the problem. Ergo, we know it isn't 10,000. The real number is probably less than 1,000.