Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 22-04-2014, 08:19   #1
Registered User
 
avb3's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Florida/Alberta
Boat: Lippincott 30
Posts: 9,913
Images: 1
NOAA report: 10,000 Containers List Annually

Interesting read, especially page 15 that outlined what happens after a container is list from a ship.

http://t.co/JDb1EOxFMv
__________________

__________________
If your attitude resembles the south end of a bull heading north, it's time to turn around.
avb3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-04-2014, 08:37   #2
Long Range Cruiser
 
MarkJ's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Australian living on "Sea Life" currently in England.
Boat: Beneteau 393 "Sea Life"
Posts: 12,828
Images: 25
Re: NOAA report: 10,000 containers list annually

675 containers lost per year on average, not 10,000


Quote:
Based on the survey results, the World Shipping Council estimates that on average there are approximately 350 containers lost at sea each year, not counting catastrophic events. When one counts the catastrophic losses, an average total loss per year of approximately 675 containers was observed.

Total industry losses obviously vary from year to year, but these numbers are well below the 2,000 to 10,000 per year that regularly appear publicly, and represent a very small fraction of container loads shipped each year.2 Nevertheless, the industry continues to pursue measures to reduce the number of containers lost overboard to zero.


http://www.worldshipping.org/industr...ard__Final.pdf
__________________

__________________
Notes on a Circumnavigation.
OurLifeAtSea.com

Somalia Pirates and our Convoy
MarkJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-04-2014, 08:42   #3
Registered User
 
avb3's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Florida/Alberta
Boat: Lippincott 30
Posts: 9,913
Images: 1
Re: NOAA report: 10,000 containers list annually

From the report:

" The International Maritime Organization, governments, and marine insurers have estimated that up to 10,000 shipping containers may fall from cargo ships annually (Podsada 2001; Standley 2003; Hohn 2011; IMO 2004; BBC 2010; ITTS 2011; Countryman and McDaniel 2011). "

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app
__________________
If your attitude resembles the south end of a bull heading north, it's time to turn around.
avb3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-04-2014, 08:49   #4
Registered User
 
Mike OReilly's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Good question
Boat: Rafiki 37
Posts: 4,030
Re: NOAA report: 10,000 containers list annually

Interesting, and a bit scary. The idea that these icebergs can float for weeks is disturbing enough, but the fact that it is not known how many are lost each year is what's most damning.

I find it hard to believe shippers don't know what their losses are. The range cited is 350/year up to 10,000/per year. Since shippers get paid based on delivering things, and suffer costs in the form of failed contracts, insurance and liability, I find it hard to believe they don't know exactly what their loss rates are.
__________________
Why go fast, when you can go slow.
BLOG: www.helplink.com/CLAFC
Mike OReilly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-04-2014, 09:09   #5
Registered User

Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: SW Florida
Boat: FP Belize, 43' - Dot Dun
Posts: 3,425
Re: NOAA report: 10,000 containers list annually

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike OReilly View Post
Interesting, and a bit scary. The idea that these icebergs can float for weeks is disturbing enough, but the fact that it is not known how many are lost each year is what's most damning.

I find it hard to believe shippers don't know what their losses are. The range cited is 350/year up to 10,000/per year. Since shippers get paid based on delivering things, and suffer costs in the form of failed contracts, insurance and liability, I find it hard to believe they don't know exactly what their loss rates are.
Would you admit to how many you lose a year? Kind of bad for business to publish such numbers.

I'll bet their insurance companies know how many are lost each year.
__________________
DotDun is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-04-2014, 09:09   #6
Senior Cruiser
 
delmarrey's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Now in Blaine, WA
Boat: Modified Choate 40
Posts: 10,702
Images: 122
Re: NOAA report: 10,000 containers list annually

Goto page 18.
It seems the shipping industry is polluting the oceans more then anyone else.
Why can't they design and stack containers like hay bails, crisscrossed, something a farmer would know. As a teen I remember stacking bails 10 high on a flatbed and then loading them in a barn to the rafters.

Or why can't they run cables over the stacks to secure them to the deck. I guess it's all about the money, forget the oceans.
__________________
Faithful are the Wounds of a Friend, but the Kisses of the Enemy are Deceitful! ........
A nation of sheep breeds a government of wolves!

Unprepared boaters, end up as floatsum!.......
delmarrey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-04-2014, 09:18   #7
Long Range Cruiser
 
MarkJ's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Australian living on "Sea Life" currently in England.
Boat: Beneteau 393 "Sea Life"
Posts: 12,828
Images: 25
Re: NOAA report: 10,000 containers list annually

And i cant get any of those resources to come up.

But when they are talking about specific examples, like the Bay Of Biscay, the numbers over the 15 years are very low considering its one of the most stormy parts of the shipping world.

Further, the ship that was sued fir $3 million environmental dammage for 15 lost containers means at 10,000 lost per year lisbilities would be around $20 billion per year.
Governments would be tracking every container lost if they thought they could get that much for them.


On the whole its a good report, unfortunately written over emotivly.

Good grist for the cruiser mill to: makes them worry about heading to sea with 10,000 containers floating put there waiting to get them.... But the reality is the numbers are much lower and they are lost in winter, or hurricane conditions which are both times cruisers are not cruising. And by time the cruising season starts most containers will have sunk.
__________________
Notes on a Circumnavigation.
OurLifeAtSea.com

Somalia Pirates and our Convoy
MarkJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-04-2014, 09:35   #8
Registered User
 
Mike OReilly's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Good question
Boat: Rafiki 37
Posts: 4,030
Re: NOAA report: 10,000 containers list annually

Quote:
Originally Posted by DotDun View Post
Would you admit to how many you lose a year? Kind of bad for business to publish such numbers. I'll bet their insurance companies know how many are lost each year.
That's my point. They do know, they just choose not to share the info, probably for fear of $$$ loss. Since companies only respond to the push and pull of $$$$ ("market forces") this is all the more reason to compel this kind of information be publicly available.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkJ View Post
...But the reality is the numbers are much lower and they are lost in winter, or hurricane conditions which are both times cruisers are not cruising. And by time the cruising season starts most containers will have sunk.
I agree with your reasoned assessment Mark. Panic is not required. Good information is required.

Quote:
Originally Posted by delmarrey View Post
It seems the shipping industry is polluting the oceans more then anyone else.
Why can't they design and stack containers like hay bails, crisscrossed, something a farmer would know. As a teen I remember stacking bails 10 high on a flatbed and then loading them in a barn to the rafters.

Or why can't they run cables over the stacks to secure them to the deck. I guess it's all about the money, forget the oceans.
Yup ... it's all about $$$$. Make it more costly to pollute and shippers will improve their environmental actions. As long as they can externalize the cost of poor design, there will be no incentive to improve.

BTW, we will all pay more for our Chinese crap by increasing the cost of shipping.
__________________
Why go fast, when you can go slow.
BLOG: www.helplink.com/CLAFC
Mike OReilly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-04-2014, 10:22   #9
Senior Cruiser
 
delmarrey's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Now in Blaine, WA
Boat: Modified Choate 40
Posts: 10,702
Images: 122
Re: NOAA report: 10,000 containers list annually

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike OReilly View Post
BTW, we will all pay more for our Chinese crap by increasing the cost of shipping.
IMO that would be a good thing. Maybe other countries would not be so dependent on China's products and start producing their own AGAIN.
__________________
Faithful are the Wounds of a Friend, but the Kisses of the Enemy are Deceitful! ........
A nation of sheep breeds a government of wolves!

Unprepared boaters, end up as floatsum!.......
delmarrey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-04-2014, 10:26   #10
Senior Cruiser
 
Cheechako's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Skagit City, WA
Posts: 19,352
Re: NOAA report: 10,000 Containers List Annually

If the USCG would get involved and deem too high a stack a "patently unsafe condition" maybe it could be solved. "oh you came all the way from China with that? guess what, you are not allowed in US waters with it"
Lotsa luck getting that to happen though.
__________________
"I spent most of my money on Booze, Broads and Boats. The rest I wasted" - Elmore Leonard











Cheechako is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-04-2014, 10:44   #11
Senior Cruiser
 
delmarrey's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Now in Blaine, WA
Boat: Modified Choate 40
Posts: 10,702
Images: 122
Re: NOAA report: 10,000 Containers List Annually

This is a world wide problem. The USCG would have very little impact on the whole world. And it would be just another cost to the US public for training, and monitoring every container ship that enters US waters.

Until there is a major event off the US coast the public is blind to what's happening. It needs to get in all the news sources and kept after. Look how fast the rage over 9-11 died out.
__________________
Faithful are the Wounds of a Friend, but the Kisses of the Enemy are Deceitful! ........
A nation of sheep breeds a government of wolves!

Unprepared boaters, end up as floatsum!.......
delmarrey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-04-2014, 10:53   #12
Registered User
 
Mike OReilly's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Good question
Boat: Rafiki 37
Posts: 4,030
Re: NOAA report: 10,000 containers list annually

Quote:
Originally Posted by delmarrey View Post
IMO that would be a good thing. Maybe other countries would not be so dependent on China's products and start producing their own AGAIN.
Whole heartedly agreed
__________________
Why go fast, when you can go slow.
BLOG: www.helplink.com/CLAFC
Mike OReilly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-04-2014, 11:55   #13
Registered User
 
avb3's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Florida/Alberta
Boat: Lippincott 30
Posts: 9,913
Images: 1
Re: NOAA report: 10,000 Containers List Annually

Went shopping with a friend in Florida for fridge, stove and microwave.

All were built by GE in the USA and actually less with equivalent or more features than Asian built ones.

I was very surprised, but on reflection, with rising wages in China and shipping costs on larger items, I could see it making sense.

It is good to see. I doubt we will see smaller items making the transition back soon though.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app
__________________
If your attitude resembles the south end of a bull heading north, it's time to turn around.
avb3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-04-2014, 12:33   #14
Long Range Cruiser
 
MarkJ's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Australian living on "Sea Life" currently in England.
Boat: Beneteau 393 "Sea Life"
Posts: 12,828
Images: 25
Re: NOAA report: 10,000 Containers List Annually

I doubt many modern countries want much manufacturing. Putting lids on jars is not much of a job.

Back to the containers.... Before people start yelling for laws we have to find out exactly what the correct numbers of lost containers are. It should be able to be done pretty exactly. If its 675 its no problem.... If its 10,000 then it is a problem.
__________________
Notes on a Circumnavigation.
OurLifeAtSea.com

Somalia Pirates and our Convoy
MarkJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-04-2014, 13:32   #15
Registered User
 
transmitterdan's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2011
Boat: Valiant 42
Posts: 4,019
Re: NOAA report: 10,000 Containers List Annually

If it were 10,000 per an mum the insurance industry would take care of the problem. Ergo, we know it isn't 10,000. The real number is probably less than 1,000.
__________________

__________________
transmitterdan is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Battery with 1,000,000 Tmes the Charge from Normal s/v Jedi Electrical: Batteries, Generators & Solar 2 08-10-2009 16:09



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 01:09.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.