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Old 22-02-2014, 10:57   #16
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Re: More than 500 Containers Lost in Heavy Seas

Cargo lost at sea and abandoned is regarded as derelict. Hence typical it's ownership transfers to the state waters it ends up in, salvage is possible.

The owner/transport company remains liable at all times for the cargo derelict or otherwise, until the receiver of wrecks ( or equivalent authority ) decides otherwise. Hence if you are damaged by derelict cargo you can technically claim damages. The issue is establishing ownership.

Note that the situation regarding hitting a container is not as black and white , most modern GRP boats will survive a head on with the straight edge of a container. Tests by Delher showed that GRP is easily capable of surviving direct contact at sailing speed with rigid objects. They did some quite brutal tests involving running into steel platforms.

Running into a corner or sharp pointy bit might be a bit different.

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Old 22-02-2014, 11:09   #17
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Re: More than 500 Containers Lost in Heavy Seas

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Originally Posted by Mike OReilly View Post
Here's one for our legal maritime minds: Is there any legal liability associated with these floating hazards? Does the shipping company, or perhaps the shipper, carry any responsibility for the crap they leave in the water? If I run into one, and sustain damage, can I bring a claim against the shipper?
You have to sail somewhere first. And even then I doubt many will sail in Biscay in winter.
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Old 22-02-2014, 11:18   #18
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Re: More than 500 Containers Lost in Heavy Seas

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You have to sail somewhere first. And even then I doubt many will sail in Biscay in winter.
Uhmm..., are you responding to a different question Mark? Or are you speaking Aussie and I'm lost in translation.
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Old 22-02-2014, 11:25   #19
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Re: More than 500 Containers Lost in Heavy Seas

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The owner/transport company remains liable at all times for the cargo derelict or otherwise, until the receiver of wrecks ( or equivalent authority ) decides otherwise. Hence if you are damaged by derelict cargo you can technically claim damages. The issue is establishing ownership.
Thanks Dave. That's what I figured. Anyone heard of such a case?
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Old 22-02-2014, 12:15   #20
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Re: More than 500 Containers Lost in Heavy Seas

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Thanks Dave. That's what I figured. Anyone heard of such a case?
Not against cargo, but there was a big claim a few years back when a cargo ship ran into the derelict of another ship ( the one with all the BMWs on board ) even though the French coastguard had buoyed the wreck. It was in the English Channel.

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Old 23-02-2014, 09:59   #21
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Re: More than 500 Containers Lost in Heavy Seas

Sometimes there might be a few bits of wood to dodge as well

http://gcaptain.com/video-crew-ditch...-to-save-ship/

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Old 23-02-2014, 10:13   #22
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Re: More than 500 Containers Lost in Heavy Seas

Unless you video taped the whole incident, start to finish and documented ownership of the container, you would play hell getting compensated for the collision. While the cargo owner and shipper would be responsible, proving it in a court room would be a whole other animal. It could be done, but the accident would have to happen where there were 3rd party witnesses etc...
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Old 23-02-2014, 11:09   #23
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Re: More than 500 Containers Lost in Heavy Seas

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Unless you video taped the whole incident, start to finish and documented ownership of the container, you would play hell getting compensated for the collision. While the cargo owner and shipper would be responsible, proving it in a court room would be a whole other animal. It could be done, but the accident would have to happen where there were 3rd party witnesses etc...
This brings forward an interesting possibility that is already in play in Russia.

My understanding is that in Russia, the cops can be corrupt and the insurance companies can be very weaselly to avoid paying out on claims. So the habit of continuously recording via a small camera every second of driving from the viewpoint through the windscreen has become common. I believe you can record several hours of driving on a tiny device; afterwards, the old files are "re-recorded" with more current ones. The process stops and starts with the car.

I can easily see this rather simple technology adapted for the cruising sailboat. Imagine a "watch cam" that records the last 24 hours of forward sailing automatically. It could be mounted 3 metres up the mast, for instance. If the boat hits (or is hit) by debris or derelict cargo/containers, the incident would be captured.

I already have a "rear-view bumper cam" so that I can safely dock portside from my pilothouse's starboard helm: it's a simple way to make sure I'm close enough for the crew to jump off with a line. This is simply that sort of deal with waterproofing and a MP3-grade recorder, a 12 VDC supply and some sort of a switch or timer.
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Old 23-02-2014, 13:00   #24
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Re: More than 500 Containers Lost in Heavy Seas

You would have to record the container number etc... and then they would argue that you did not take action in a timely fashion to avoid contact with the container. It would be very difficult to make a claim stick if they wanted to fight it.
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Old 23-02-2014, 16:01   #25
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Re: More than 500 Containers Lost in Heavy Seas

Yes, in Russia many drivers, especially taxis have a dash camera running
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