More Chinese Products, for the Galley This Time

Dave, those properties are in places with no job market. There are homes for sale in Ohio every day in that range, but the average salary reflects the depressed economy, and, the areas I looked at out there had strickt requirements about keeping the homes up to city codes. This would entail thousands of dollars upfront to bring the house up to code. Regardles of what the local housing market is for a particular area, the local job market does not support the cost of living. Every once in awhile, the job market does hit a spike in a particular area, and there is usually a spike in relocations to that area. There is an equal spike in outside investors purchasing investment real estate, to flip for a profit, further inflating the market.

[hellosailor]

Dave, there's probably good investment property all over the world but in the US, at the low end of the market, for a buyer halfway around the world, I'd say pass.

Too many scams, too many people selling "Get Rich Like I DiD!" seminars, and too many people taking those seminars and trying to play the game. Thirty years ago, tax sales (property foreclosed on tax liens) went below market prices. Now, after all the seminars? People bid it up WAY past "retail" market prices. There are many stories of woe, folks who bought property in Buffalo and other cities, not really seeing it, not realizing there were liens and other problems, not realizing there were squatters or druggies or drive-by shootings. It is indeed quite possible to buy a
"bargain"...and then lose your shirt over it. Especially when you are not familiar with local laws (city, state, and federal) and have no eyes on the ground.

I saw some great bargains (ahem) from a land auction company that runs big auctions in hotels here. Even links to topo, satellite, and tax maps for them. So I look at this one 11-acre bargain...and quickly see it is located on an abandoned railroad right of way, surrounded by other lots, with no road frontage. No road frontage, no utilities, no access unless one of the neighboring properties has something in their deed ensuring a right-of-way to that lot. And no way to check on that--without contacting the local county clerk and ordering up copies of the deeds of every surrounding property. Still, I'll bet someone bought it at that auction. (Hey, no problem if you've got a helicopter!<G>)

Can it be a lucrative market? You bet. But like our stock market, most of the players have to lose their shirts, in order to make the few lucrative ones win.

[cat man do]

Originally Posted by hellosailor

Dave, there's probably good investment property all over the world but in the US, at the low end of the market, for a buyer halfway around the world, I'd say pass.

Can it be a lucrative market? You bet. But like our stock market, most of the players have to lose their shirts, in order to make the few lucrative ones win.

Thanks for that.

Indeed we have the same sounding thing over here.

We have the scam's, druggies, bashing's, but not that many shooting's.[no guns]

There are deal's to be had, but you do have to go on the hunt, and get your hand's dirty.

And despite what people think/ say you don't have to rip people off or put them out of house to get ahead.

I'm more than happy playing in my own country. I was just pointing out that it seem's there are cheaper houses than what Kai said.

" Due Dilligence " is required on any purchase in my opinion, so we haven't been sharked on anything that matter's.

This, ""And no way to check on that--without contacting the local county clerk and ordering up copies of the deeds of every surrounding property. " is part of that due dilligence process

Dave

Hosing markets in the US vary tremendously. THere are a few remote locations in California where you can pruchase an older home in a decent neighborhood for under a hundred thousand. Unfortunately, the closest job paying over minumum wage is 2 hours each direction, and that market requires that someone dies before a job opens up. The worst scenario for an investment property is one in an area where the renters can not pay the rent. If I remember correctly, and I am working from a news report I heard awhile back, so the numbers may not be exact, but the average income in the US is $35000. The average median home cost is $250000. That works out to about $2000 per month take home, and a payment in excess of $1000 per month even with the best loan rates. Add taxes, and insurance, and you are at $1500 per month. Average car payment $300 per month. That leaves $200 per month for everything else. Single income will not cut it. This isn't living in Beverly Hills, and driving a Hummer. It is more like Billings Montana and driving a Toyota. If you can be hands on, right place, right time, there are deals, but they are not the norm. I have located a few of those deals, and they have worked out, but I do not have the capital to play that game on the level to make the big time. One home we found in Cleveland seemed like a great deal at $169000. We fell in love with it. Nice neighborhood, good income potential in my field. The problem came when we found out we would have to invest between $20000-$40000 to bring it up to code. Things that would not have been an immediate concern,and we would have repaired over time, would have needed repair immediately to satisfy local government.

[cat man do]

I am still having a tough time understanding what the problem is.

In Aus we have places with cheap houses and no real work prospect for under $100k, Houses that are around $170k that need another $40k thrown at them and then you could sell for $270, or rent out for $300/week.

Average wage is about the same, yet we have plenty of people who get out there and make a go with the hand that is dealt.

It seem's to me that the numbers are fairly similar, it just depend's what you spend the paypacket on each week.

Car's, TV's, computer's, dare I say boat's etc depreciate in value.

Property in most areas Appreciates in value.

You have to start small and work your way up.

As said by Acoustic," I travel a lot for business and in 12 years I've been to over 30 countries. I can tell you, without question, that we Americans have the highest standard of living on the planet. I include our poor when I say this. There is affordable housing out there. Here in Maine we have plenty of "manufactured housing" or single / double wides. In fact right now there is a slew of them on the market because no one here in Maine really wants to live in one. People choose to be broke and in debt so when they pull up in front of Barbie and Kens house in their new Hummer everone thinks they are doing well. The real problem is in personal choice over personal responsibility. My wife and I choose to stay in our modest house rather than moving up to bigger one like many of our friends ....and

America is a country about choice. It's your choice to buy the Hummer and wide screen tv instead of healthcare. It's your choice to live beyond your means instead of saving for ..........

Houses, this is exactly like Australia, as a lot of our young so desperatly want to be like the US and want all the shiny stuff now and won't put in the hard yard's to get there.

Dave

[44'cruisingcat]

Originally Posted by ssullivan

Anyone can become educated, but not anyone can become rich. Those who have a concience may have a hard time becoming rich. To become rich, you have to rip off and/or steal from others to get to that point unless you won the lottery or inherited the money, which probably came from your ancestor's ill-gotten gains.

Not true. Not true at all. A good friend of mine became a millionaire by simply recognising where a market existed and filling it. He never ripped a soul off. In fact he gave jobs to people who ended up ripping HIM off - simply because he felt they needed a break.

Dave, not saying it can't be done, but when we are sending our kids out into the world with no practical education on handling money (An issue not even addressed in most public school systems), then paying wages that make home ownership seem out of reach, the large majority spend their lives making a meager living, and living in a low rent apartment. For many, those glitz and glam items like a nice car, or big screen TV are made to seem within reach by easy financing, and low upfront costs. For these same low to middle income families, this is the closest they feel they will ever get to having the American dream. Not to say it isn't their fault, but the skills needed to make sound financial decisions are not being taught to them. I am not saying these people should not be responsible for their financial future. I am saying that it just shouldn't be so hard for an average person to have a basic quality of life. I have no idea how to change the situation. I have no idea how to reduce housing costs to a reasonable level, or how to increase salaries to a level wher the majority can have a quality of life. I would not expect people to be given hand outs, while driving a $50000 car. I do feel there is a certain responsibility a country has for it's people. Healthcare for everyone is number one on that list. Food is of equal importance. Shelter would be the third. No one should be sleeping on the street because the shelter is full. No one should freeze to death in the doorway of a vacant building. The government should not be able to sell off closed military bases to private investers to build more million dollar homes. Especially when those bases already have decent minimal housing facilities set up, as well as business, and basic infrastructure in place. What about, instead of spending $10 million on a commitee to decide which investor gets the base property, that same $10 million be spent to revive some of the old commercial businesses, and install things like DMV's and passport offices to employ those who could be provided free or at least true low income housing at those same locations? By the way, low income housing in this area goes for the $250000 range. Not sure how you could afford a $250000 home on $6.25 an hour (minimum wage) even with two incomes.
I will admit that this may be specific to my area. There is a very large Mexican community here, and they have overcome some of the financial issues by living in co-ops. The whole group accepts a lower standard of living, and all the money goes into a fund, then is distributed equally amongst the families. This fund gives them purchasing power that the average individual does not have. It also allows them to manipulate the housing costs in their area leveraging the profits of the real estate that they own as a group to provide even more income for the co-op. I have no interest in this lifestyle, but feel solutions like this shouldn't be necessary. Such an economy creates markets for substandard items. It allows unscrupulous people to sell those glimpses of the American dream for a price that attracts people who just want a piece of it. When those people are allowed to sell those items as a "deal", a person who does no have the capacity to recognize when a deal is not a deal will get financially set back. When lack of income dictates your necessary purchases to bargains, capitalism has failed.
acoustic and others who have made it. I respect your hard earned success. I share in it, but it was a hard road, and many of the losses I tok along the way were unfair, and I should not have had to endure them. Four times in my life I have had to start with little more than the clothes on my back. Four times I have built a comfortable life. Each of those four times, I had to fight, claw and scrimp to get back on my feet. Each, was a decision I made to have a little freedom to enjoy my life. When I moved aboard my boat, and made the decision to go cruising, the home I sold was worth $99000. In 10 years, my income has doubled. The value of that home has tripled. For anyone who wants to take off and go cruising with the intent of returning someday and re-entering the housing market, this thought is frieghtening. And, if it isn't, it should be. For those who would take off and expect to rent out their property, again, I will mention the worst enemy of a rental property. A renter who can not pay the rent. If the housing market continues to climb, and salaries continue to stagnate, covering the cost of retaiing a home while cruising will become impossible. So, damned if ya do, and damned if ya don't. In a few years when I am able to create another cruising window, I anticipate 5 years cruising. When I return, I expect my income to be equal or lower than that of when I left. I expect housing costs to have risen by at least another 50%.

[seafox]

Owners of a Florida trailer park-town, many who paid less than $100,000 for their homes, voted to become millionaires by approving the sale of their slice of seaside paradise to developers for US$510 million.

Must be easy in the USA. Don't know what you are all moaning about

A trailer park where the owners actually got to OWN property? And then got to sell it rather than the government taking it under emminent domain? WOW! Oh wait, you said "Owners". Does that mean the residents who lived in the trailers? Or does that mean the people who owned the property where the trailers were parked? That happens all the time. Owner of a small apartment sells said apartment for an obcene amount of money. Residents of that apartment are eveicted so the new owners can turn it into condos, OR allowed to purchase a condo for twice the monthly cost they are currently paying.
I know, I know, you are sick of hearing it.

[seafox]

Some "Brinyites" paid less than US$100,000 for their trailers and will walk away from the deal, scheduled to close in March 2009, with more than US$1 million.

"The vote clearly reflects the overwhelming desire of the shareholders to sell Briny Breezes," Mary Kimber, president of Briny Breezes, Inc, said in a written statement.

Seventeen percent of the owners voted against the sale. Some said they didn't want to lose the unique lifestyle of the oceanfront park, which boasts clubs devoted to square dancing, woodworking and shuffleboard.

They probably even get to keep the caravans too. Must be real easy in the US of A. You guys need to get with the flow!!!!

Damn, I guess I live in the wrong neighborhood It is rare that a mobile home park allows the esidents to own shares. Not a bad idea tough.

[hellosailor]

Kai Nui-
"but when we are sending our kids out into the world with no practical education on handling money (An issue not even addressed in most public school systems), " I'm not sure that is a problem--except, for the usual problem of bad parenting. This is something parents can and should teach, and traditionally either have or haven't taught. It was never the burden of the school system. And there again, bad schools often are the result of laissez-faire parents. It would be nice if schools taught first aid and firefighting and practical economics and many other things. But, is that the mission of educational systems? Arguably not, when they aren't even meeting the core tasks.

Seafox-
"Owners of a Florida trailer park-town, " I don't think you folks got the whole story. Briney Acres was a strawberry farm that allowed trailer owners to come down in the off season and camp there. Eventually the farmer decided to sell the farm and the renters incorporated as a town of their own. The town is located in what was farmland, the middle of nowhere on Florida's east coast in the 1950's. Well, that's now the fringe of "The Gold Coast" in Florida's booming--or busting--real estate market and the 43(?) acres that 400(?) trailers sit on now represents a HUGE PARCEL of basically unzoned, unrestricted land on the Gold Coast. Since the entire town is being sold, there are no restrictions on what can be built there. 43 acres is, by rough math, about a dozen full city blocks of high rise condominiums that can be built with market prices in Florida of 1/2 million to 1 million per unit, let's say 6 units per floor and 20 floors per building (they could go twice as high, nothing has been announced) and six units per block...That's 720 units which could sell for a half billion dollars in total, easily. More likely, it will go for 3x-4x that and of course, the developer will still literally own the city itself. So yes, the real estate developer got a real bargain and the trailer owners made out great. Or did they?

You see, a small two bedroom town house (row house, or 4-story condo buildings) in that area will run about $200,000 inland, and a half million or more in a coastal location. And, they had a location right on the shore--prime prime real estate.

You can do the same thing, if you buy coastland in the middle of nowhere and then hold onto it for 40 years. Oh, and buy enough of it to keep it out of any municipal area and regulations.<G>

Most of those folks won't be able to buy a replacement unit in the buildings that go up on the same property they're leaving. But if they move to the middle of nowhere again, after they've paid some steep tax bills, they'll probably be able to live a little better than they do now. In a much more mundane location.

This was a MOST unusual situation, which is why it has been in the nooze. Yeah, they'll make out OK. All they have to give up, is the home they've spent their retirement in, and their entire community and lifestyle. I suspect some of them only sold because if they didn't, they land could have been taken under eminent domain, which is being hotly abused in the US in recent years, and has become a lost cause in the courts.

hellosailor, true, it shoud be taught by the parents, but with the current complexities of econimics, and the fact that for the past 2 generations at least, economics has not ben commonly taught in schools, I really think it is a necessary change. Economics is not cooking or golden rule. It is math and science. It i not unreasonabl to expect our educational system to provide some sort of understanding of basic economics. How to balance a check book. How to understand the intricacies of a home or car loan. Why it says 24% apr, and then 27%. How long it really takes to pay off a $2500 credit card at 24%. And, why not to use the Paycheck advace places (a major problem near military bases).

[seafox]

yeah Hello Sailor, read all about it. I was just pulling your legs about what a walk in the park it is to make money in America.

And here I thought you were seriously going to leave paradise to become a millionaire in the US