Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 06-02-2011, 20:50   #16
CF Adviser
 
Pelagic's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2007
Boat: Van Helleman Schooner 65ft StarGazer
Posts: 6,890
Quote:
Originally Posted by atoll View Post
starting to see parrellels in the natural world,and communities.
wondering if others see this..........
Fish school, so do people. Tide working against wind creates similar destructive forces to opposing political parties

The point I am making is that it is all relative to your perspective (perhaps changing thru the years) and is a talking point… nothing more, nothing less

If you go searching for universal metaphysical Truths, you will probably find them. But that does not make them valid.

Personally, I get very nervous when someone tries to enlighten me and prefer to deconstruct that thought process down to given perspectives.

“Under the skeptical analyses of the philosophical movements known as postmodernism and deconstructionism, all of these facts have resulted in a modern repudiation of both metaphysics and science. Their criticisms are based on the cultural and historical relativity of all knowledge. These two philosophical "schools" deny any existence at all of an objective or universal knowledge. Thus, metaphysical claims stand today between the absolutist claims of science (scientism) and the complete relativism of postmodernism and deconstructionism.”
__________________

__________________
Pelagic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-02-2011, 21:08   #17
Senior Cruiser
 
atoll's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: gettin naughty on the beach in cornwall
Boat: 63 custom alloy sloop,macwester26,prout snowgoose 37 elite catamaran!
Posts: 9,311
Images: 75
in tune with nature

Quote:
Originally Posted by four winds View Post
I'm curious about this, if you would elaborate to help me understand I'd appreciate it.

Hopefully my edit of the post didn't destroy context.
found myself bare foot in the middle of the sudan,africa in 1982,with a group of dinka tribesmen,realised that although i had superiour education ,equipment,and just as fit as these blokes their skills at surviving in their environment were far superiour to mine.

though i was only able to communicte with sign language found that there were many parellels between their world and ours.

since then iv'e traveled to many remote places and lived with very primative people.

iv'e also spent much time in deserts,oceans ,and up mountains in remote parts of the world.

funnily enough ive never wanted much,never had a sponser,nor published but every thing ive ever wanted to achieve has come to me,and never had more than $3000 dollars in the bank......work that one out....im still trying........
__________________

__________________
my catamaran building project updates http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...36#post2502136
atoll is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-02-2011, 21:28   #18
Senior Cruiser
 
atoll's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: gettin naughty on the beach in cornwall
Boat: 63 custom alloy sloop,macwester26,prout snowgoose 37 elite catamaran!
Posts: 9,311
Images: 75
good points

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pelagic View Post
Fish school, so do people. Tide working against wind creates similar destructive forces to opposing political parties

The point I am making is that it is all relative to your perspective (perhaps changing thru the years) and is a talking point… nothing more, nothing less

If you go searching for universal metaphysical Truths, you will probably find them. But that does not make them valid.

Personally, I get very nervous when someone tries to enlighten me and prefer to deconstruct that thought process down to given perspectives.

“Under the skeptical analyses of the philosophical movements known as postmodernism and deconstructionism, all of these facts have resulted in a modern repudiation of both metaphysics and science. Their criticisms are based on the cultural and historical relativity of all knowledge. These two philosophical "schools" deny any existence at all of an objective or universal knowledge. Thus, metaphysical claims stand today between the absolutist claims of science (scientism) and the complete relativism of postmodernism and deconstructionism.”
but as bertram russel said "if science is true how do we know it is true?"

oh and would not try to enlighten you or anyone,one can only enlighten oneself....

but that is by the by the by im talking about chance,and near misses,good luck,call it what you will..... it exists
__________________
my catamaran building project updates http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...36#post2502136
atoll is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-02-2011, 21:46   #19
CF Adviser
 
Pelagic's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2007
Boat: Van Helleman Schooner 65ft StarGazer
Posts: 6,890
Quote:
Originally Posted by atoll View Post
but as bertram russel said "if science is true how do we know it is true?"
That is my whole point…

…. “science cannot solely be relied upon to explain reality, for the human mind cannot be seen as simply a mirror of the natural world. For example, since the act of scientific observation itself tends to produce the reality it hopes to explain, the so-called "truths" of science cannot be considered as final or objective. This fact manifests itself over and over again, as scientific truths and laws continue to break down or yield to new and better explanations of reality. What becomes apparent, therefore, is that the process of human interpretation in the sciences, as elsewhere, is both variable and relative to the observer's viewpoint.”


Actually I am a big fan of Bertram Russel and love his answer to Rene Decartes … “I think therefore I am”


He Answered;
“How do you know it is you who is doing the thinking?”
__________________
Pelagic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-02-2011, 22:02   #20
Registered User
 
four winds's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Wandering the US Gulf Coast
Boat: 78 Pearson323 Four Winds
Posts: 2,138
Excellent posts folks.

When I hear the term "primitive cultures" I think, (atol, I know this doesn't apply to you saying it), how does one define primitive?

Typically living in harmony with nature, sometimes believing "god" is defined "sharing" with everyone all things at all times, are very laudable characteristics. Not primitive in any way, but I guess not having the goods and services the 1st world requires is a more defining mechanism.

Science is actually the true "myth", the earth's not flat after all, turns out it was a myth. Current science has an equally good chance of repeating that. I my opinion the speed of light is not a constant, it's only so to make the calculations possible. One day we will "know" better, and the myth will continue to change.

In my opinion there is little conflict between science and religion. To think there is, is an indication of a lack of understanding of one or the other. I believe it was St. Francis of Assisi that said that and I agree.
__________________
four winds is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-02-2011, 22:05   #21
Senior Cruiser
 
atoll's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: gettin naughty on the beach in cornwall
Boat: 63 custom alloy sloop,macwester26,prout snowgoose 37 elite catamaran!
Posts: 9,311
Images: 75
to try and shed some light on the unanswerable,as a response to "FOUR WINDS"
"every action has an equal and opposite reaction"

as a response to a russian billionaire,there are only two things you need fear,"good and evil,every thing inbetween you can control"

to all my cruising friends "keep a clean heart,help those you can,expect no return,and only good things will come to you"
__________________
my catamaran building project updates http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...36#post2502136
atoll is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-02-2011, 22:08   #22
Registered User
 
four winds's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Wandering the US Gulf Coast
Boat: 78 Pearson323 Four Winds
Posts: 2,138
Some call it karma, some call it reaping what you sow.

Yet the two groups rarely would say they are on the same path.

Very unfortunate, and the root of a lot of hardship in the world.
__________________
four winds is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-02-2011, 22:24   #23
Senior Cruiser
 
senormechanico's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2003
Boat: Dragonfly 1000 trimaran
Posts: 5,827
"I think, therefore I am" as done by The Moody Blues:

__________________
Memento,homo, quia pulvis es, et in pulverem reverteris.
senormechanico is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-02-2011, 22:39   #24
Registered User
 
Feral Cement's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: North Carolina, USA
Boat: Tartan 34C
Posts: 583
I find a special sense of spirituality in sailing. I also find it sitting on the beach, or out in the woods, sometimes in a garden, often in art, frequently in music, usually next to a stream, almost always in the company of small children, and in some less-obvious places.

For me, it's all about being present and aware, showing compassion where needed, and trying to be gentle and forgiving with my soul and yours.

When I am close to "it", I know "it", and even though no one can put "it" into words, "it" is a feeling of universal truth.

I sail, therefore I arrrrrrgh.

John
__________________
Feral Cement is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-02-2011, 23:01   #25
Moderator Emeritus
 
hummingway's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Gabriola Island & Victoria, British Columbia
Boat: Cooper 416 Honeysuckle
Posts: 6,933
Images: 5
I am therefore I think. The conditions and time necessary to produce one such as I existed but seems to have embued a need to spiritualize. I am born of the material of exploded stars but, strangely, that sometimes isn't enough for my thoughts.
__________________
“We are the universe contemplating itself” - Carl Sagan

hummingway is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-02-2011, 23:59   #26
Wayfaring Mariner
 
captain58sailin's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Homer, AK is my home port
Boat: Skookum 53'
Posts: 4,045
Images: 5
One of my favorite lines is from Little River Band, "There are so many paths up the mountain, but the view from the top is still the same."
Carlos Castenada related that Don Juan proclaimed that there are only two things in the universe, the unknown and the unknowable, the unknown would be revealed in due time and the unknowable would never be revealed. The hook is knowing the difference between the two.
Whether it be sailing or motoring, there is no greater spiritual connection to the universe for me.
As to the "enlightenment of others" "Do not try to teach a pig to sing, it wastes your time and annoys the pig.".
__________________
" Wisdom; is your reward for surviving your mistakes"
captain58sailin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-02-2011, 00:53   #27
CF Adviser
 
Pelagic's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2007
Boat: Van Helleman Schooner 65ft StarGazer
Posts: 6,890
Quote:
Originally Posted by senormechanico View Post
"I think, therefore I am" as done by The Moody Blues:

The first time I ever smoked a joint, someone put that record on and I was in musical bliss till that dammed computer started talking.

I was around 19…….Talk about freaking out……. Wheew!!!

Never had much tolerance for booze or drugs after that, but thanks Steve.... a memorable flash from the past!
__________________
Pelagic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-02-2011, 01:33   #28
Registered User
 
SurferShane's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: NSW AUSTRALIA
Boat: L. Francis Herreshoff Ketch
Posts: 1,129
Images: 45
Lightbulb

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pelagic View Post
Some would say we are cowards… running away from our responsibilities on land and society… unable to contribute to the betterment of mankind and instead drifting away from any commitment.

Basically a selfish lot!....
And maybe equally unable to react like sheep or Pavlov's dogs? Then there is nothing like the brutality of being in the elements to make one REAL?
__________________
Life is a shipwreck but we must not forget to sing in the lifeboats. - Voltaire
SurferShane is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-02-2011, 02:28   #29
Registered User
 
henkmeuzelaar's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Rocky Mountains & Vanuatu
Boat: Zodiac Ribster 17' "HAV"
Posts: 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by daddle View Post
Not that anything is wrong with hedonism...right? Hedonism seems all around healthier than having invisible friends...
(sorry for the late reaction; I just started to read this thread)

Having "invisible friends" as opposed to a hedonist's "real" friends ??

IMHO, hedonism and friendship (with or without benefits) make for extremely uneasy bedfellows.

Someone like Charlie Sheen ought to be able to contribute some interesting observations to that very topic.....

If not, there is always Shakespeare's time-honored insight into the human condition; e.g. when he makes Timon of Athen's personal servant Flavius lament:"what viler thing upon the earth than friends who can bring noblest minds to vilest ends", when the bills are coming due for his master's decidedly hedonistic lifestyle.

Have fun!!

Flying Dutchman
__________________
henkmeuzelaar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-02-2011, 03:21   #30
Armchair Bucketeer
 
David_Old_Jersey's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 10,013
Images: 4
Quote:
Originally Posted by daddle View Post
Not that anything is wrong with hedonism...right? Hedonism seems all around healthier than having invisible friends...
Hedonism is fun

From the bits I can remember


Invisible Freinds? I hope you ain't knockin..........Santa
__________________

__________________
David_Old_Jersey is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
cruising

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Which Is More Forgiving - Cruising Monohull or Cruising Multihull maxingout General Sailing Forum 36 10-02-2010 06:41
Cruising Cat vs. Cruising Mono Performance ssullivan Multihull Sailboats 100 03-01-2010 14:05
cruising log of cruising up the ICW daniel Sailor Logs & Cruising Plans 5 12-03-2008 09:01



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 00:03.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.