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Old 03-10-2016, 07:12   #46
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Re: May I rant about too much "stuff"?

Definitely.

Someone knows a solution?

I do not.

We just try to get rid of as much of junk as possible before every crossing. You know, to keep the boat 'light'.

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Old 03-10-2016, 08:04   #47
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Re: May I rant about too much "stuff"?

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Definitely.

Someone knows a solution? . . . .
A bigger boat, with a much greater proportion of storage space to living space, is the only thing I can think of.

It's one of the reasons why I'm going custom built for my next boat. Series produced cruising boats are just not designed for long-term, long-range, autonomous cruising, with the Amel being the only boat which is even slightly better than the norm.

I was on the brand new Discovery 58 at the Southampton show last year -- a mega-expensive, high quality boat. It was simply shocking how little storage space of any kind it has -- less even than my boat.

The makers have it in their minds, it seems, that cruising boats are sold by the cubic centimeter of living space, and squeeze out every possible other space out of the hull volume in order to fill up every tiny nook and cranny with living area and more beds and bigger cabins.


In my present boat, I have a master cabin with TWO settees in it (!). Queen sized island bunk. Makeup table, two hanging lockers, all kinds of cabinets -- It's not that much smaller than my bedroom on land. Yet I have no space for SAILS anywhere, unless I want to dump them in the lazarette or keep them on the floor in the salon (I do the latter). I do have a dedicated wet locker for weather gear">foul weather gear, with heat inside it to boot, but it's only just big enough for maybe two people's gear at most. Just crazy priorities.


Just getting the tools out to do any repair or maintenance operation is a whole thing, not to mention digging around for the spares.
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Old 03-10-2016, 08:51   #48
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Re: May I rant about too much "stuff"?

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................................

If you want to be really autonomous and capable of cruising for even a few days at a time without civilization, you need an enormous amount of carp. So you don't even have any choice about "minimalism" -- you're forced into it by the sheer mass of stuff which is actually essential. That's why cruisers are ruthless about throwing things away -- you just can't afford to keep anything on board which you don't really need. That's also why marina dumpster diving is so profitable -- so much perfectly good stuff gets chucked just because it's impossible to store it..........................
Ruthless is exactly the word we used when we prepared for our trip. The boat supplies were already there, 'cuz my middle name is BACKUP!!!

We decided to move to Canada from San Francisco in mid-May 2016. We got rid of everything in the house, save some stuff in storage (I can't play my extensive record collection on the boat, but I want them in our new land home) and did it all in six weeks, then moved north.

A month later we came down and did the "ruthless storage" trick on the boat for our six week journey north, harbor hopping. We arrived back in Oakland on July 29th and left on August 8th.

Six weeks for the house stuff and nine days to get the boat ready.

The boat was already ready (!) with boat stuff, only needed clothes, food and crew, but a lot of stuff left the boat to make room in those nine days.

I'm always amazed that people take years to do this.

Perhaps it has something to do with age, too. When I was younger, I "collected" stuff. Now, I'm divesting, 'cuz I've figured out what's important and what's not.

Still, I ended up bringing twice as many clothes as I needed. And this was after the mantra of: pack what you think you need, then cut it in half!!!
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Old 03-10-2016, 08:52   #49
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Re: May I rant about too much "stuff"?

I think the manufacturers dedicate as little space as possible to areas that can't be shown in the glamour shots for magazines. Sure a "heated wet locker" is there but only to increase the "blue water" appeal. You're a real live sailorman, they're trying to attract the professional with the cash (but perhaps not the experience ) and there's a lot more of him than there is of you. In his dream they magically get from island to island where bikini clad young women swim out to the boat with bottles of rum clenched in their teeth. Why would they need a heated wet locker? Advertising drives product development. Probably always has.

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Old 03-10-2016, 10:44   #50
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Re: May I rant about too much "stuff"?

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A bigger boat, with a much greater proportion of storage space to living space, is the only thing I can think of.
(...)
Yes. But this will depend on the collector's mindset - some will fill it up in a year. This happened to our friends in a big Catana.

With the right mindset though, even a small boat should be room enough. Just chuck out that toothbrush.

;-)

No money for so big a boat here. All I can afford is my foolosophy. ;-)

b.
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Old 03-10-2016, 12:03   #51
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Re: May I rant about too much "stuff"?

Lots of great info here.

I am a self proclaimed pack rat, serious hoarder. My advice is to go ahead and bring all of these "so important" items on to your boat. After a short time you will start throwing things away. Your desire for space and simplicity will over rule your desire for all the "stuff". You know, having to dig around for everything, taking more than a few minutes to get the boat ready to sail, never finding the part or tool you know you have packed.

All books, music, photos, movies, etc. should be on a hard drive.

Keep your musical instruments. Just not all of them. I keep one guitar, one mandolin, and one violin on board. I can't figure how to pack the full size cello or the grand piano on the 36 foot boat.

I know only one other psaltery player. Now I know two. Good Luck.
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Old 03-10-2016, 12:12   #52
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Re: May I rant about too much "stuff"?

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Yes. But this will depend on the collector's mindset - some will fill it up in a year. . . .
Some? All! There is a well know law of physics, I think it's Boyle's Law, which says that stuff on a cruising boat will expand to fill all of the available space within 3.3 months.

I have a good friend with a 60 meter (200 feet) former military vessel, converted to use as a private Arctic adventuring yacht. I accompanied him on his first cruise with this fabulous vessel, the only flaw of which is that it has no sails.

Do you think he has any extra storage space? Ha! The 3.3 month rule applied even to him!
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Old 03-10-2016, 13:03   #53
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Re: May I rant about too much "stuff"?

I always travel light. If I can't get into a shoulder bag or back pack I don't take it. Prefer subways and trains to taxis (accept when that's the only option) and if I need anything I buy it after I get where I'm going.

OTOH, every woman I've ever known needs suitcases full of crap when they travel. Drives me nuts. Probably one of the many reasons I'm not married.

I suspect arguing is a losing battle. People either get it or they don't.

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Old 03-10-2016, 13:24   #54
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Re: May I rant about too much "stuff"?

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I always travel light. If I can't get into a shoulder bag or back pack I don't take it. Prefer subways and trains to taxis (accept when that's the only option) and if I need anything I buy it after I get where I'm going.

OTOH, every woman I've ever known needs suitcases full of crap when they travel. Drives me nuts. Probably one of the many reasons I'm not married.

I suspect arguing is a losing battle. People either get it or they don't.

Poor frog. My guess is that the women you are attracted to are fairly stylish. Women who need less baggage arent appealing?

Well be heading south doon to work on the boat. I will take work grubbies, 1 shorts, 1 skirt and 3 tops. It will all fit in my backpack. But ill look a little frumpy.
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Old 03-10-2016, 14:10   #55
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Re: May I rant about too much "stuff"?

I had stuff before walkabout. Traded everything but a blanket and umbrella for food in North Africa .Went a year like that and got home before my stuff finally filled the trunk of the old GTO. .Now I have too many rakes,spades ,clippers ,tools ,flat screen tv's .. .I supply most of the VV boutiques in the area but it doesn't seem to help. Can you help me? I'll pay the Fed EX
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Old 03-10-2016, 14:40   #56
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Re: May I rant about too much "stuff"??

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There's lots of interesting stuff to acquire... and we're tempted by media and other influences around us. We believe lots of these things are useful, practical and many are just because they are nice, or "feel good" promotors. We fill our living space real estate... because we can... some have more real estate, and more money to fill it... and some just stuff their spaces to the over flowing. We also tend no to want to or know how to get rid of things we no longer use which are in "good repair". Putting them in the trash seems and is wasteful. We give at time to charity, friends, relatives...or just put the stuff in storage warehouses. He have clothing drops, places like Salvation Army and good will who take in old stuff and sell it cheap to less fortunate... or anyone who wants a good buy.



People who work and don't wear a uniform feel the need to look "sharp" at work. Youngsters feel the need to look trendy. We are a society of conspicuous consumption. People have multiple cars, trucks, motor cycles and even boats!.. that is some people.



And too others struggle and barely have anything... the homeless and the poor. And there are millions like that as well.



We tout recycling but way too many want NEW... We don't repair much and dispose because there are no professional repair facilities and corporations want you to buy new and plan obsolescence.



All of this "sickness" is there in plain sight and few manage to live free of this paradigm of waste and conspicuous consumption. Females are notorious clothes and shoe horses with closets as large as small apartments to store clothes they buy, may where once or maybe even not at all. There are even companies which "design and fit out closets"



As a society we don't do recycling very well, but the concept exists and some people make an attempt to do it.



Growth is the cause and it's what's in business' DNA. Without growing they are dying. But we now know BECAUSE of growth we are starving ourselves and our environment. Thinking people understand this... few manage to alter their behavior.



++++



Some go off the grid rejecting the consumption paradigm even the notion of a "built" society. Sailors are an interesting lot... part off and part in. They need stuff... the factories which create the stuff they need... but they are forced to carry it all in a very small volume of space which is presumed to be almost self sufficient. Energy drives all but free energy can't suffice for everything... such a heat and cooling.



Many people will transition from being part of the wasteful consumer paradigm to the very much less wasteful one of the live aboard off the grid sailor. But the sailor needs energy and food of course, and those are products of a somewhat industrialized society. Transport of things is an industrial product / process and an environmentally destructive one.



When you pare down to sail off for a few years you are forced to learn how much waste our lives involve and how little "things" we actually need to live a rewarding life. It's hard to do and returning back when it happens probably sees people who are measurably less involved with the consumption society. But it's so tempting that they often get on the conveyor belt of consumption and waste.



Even the most prudent and careful have too many things most of which they do not need.



This is "sickness" not something to celebrate about industrialized modern "advanced" society. This is an addiction... and the impact is to destroy our habitat.

After moving to Mexico with only clothes, I realize that I still have too much stuff stored on my land in the US.
I moved around much in the last few years, I have duplicate things. I also collected materials, recycled and otherwise. Now after traveling for most of the summer, I am considering that maybe I don't want to return to the land working on the tiny cabin anymore. Starting to pass things down to the kids and who knows, maybe sell the land. If I stay in warm weather, limited clothing is required.


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Old 03-10-2016, 15:03   #57
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Re: May I rant about too much "stuff"?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul54 View Post
Lots of great info here.

I am a self proclaimed pack rat, serious hoarder. My advice is to go ahead and bring all of these "so important" items on to your boat. After a short time you will start throwing things away. Your desire for space and simplicity will over rule your desire for all the "stuff". You know, having to dig around for everything, taking more than a few minutes to get the boat ready to sail, never finding the part or tool you know you have packed.

All books, music, photos, movies, etc. should be on a hard drive.

Keep your musical instruments. Just not all of them. I keep one guitar, one mandolin, and one violin on board. I can't figure how to pack the full size cello or the grand piano on the 36 foot boat.

I know only one other psaltery player. Now I know two. Good Luck.
Keep a musical instrument aboard the boat, if you can play it.

One of my favorite sailing memories is when hundreds of miles from land while on a long voyage out of Kauai, another sailboat traveling in the same direction came close to have a gam. What made it really memorable was that when the boat came close to us, the skipper was in the cockpit playing an Irish tune on his fiddle. It was unexpected and a wonderful thing!

I love fiddle music, Irish music, bluegrass, etc. I also thought with a smile of how a gam happened back during the age of sail, when boats meeting in mid ocean would get together for a little entertainment and diversion and morale boost. Unforgettable!
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Old 03-10-2016, 15:27   #58
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Re: May I rant about too much "stuff"?

We've done the big downsize for our stuff, plus Mom's stuff too. Its hard work deciding what to keep. We're moving on the boat full-time in 2017 and we're not planning on having a storage unit long-term. The plan is to have a storage contract with an an end date I expect that to cause some anxiety.

I wrote up our downsizing exercise as a blog post - https://dinghylife.wordpress.com/201...-big-downsize/

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Old 03-10-2016, 22:15   #59
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Question Re: May I rant about too much "stuff"?

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Food


My boat -- despite interior volume probably 4x my previous, 37' boat, is stuffed to the gills. Every nook and cranny is full of stuff, and I use the unoccupied sleeping cabins for storage when I don't have crew or guests on board.
That begs the question of where does it go in case you do expect guests?
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Old 03-10-2016, 22:48   #60
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Re: May I rant about too much "stuff"?

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Originally Posted by Steady Hand View Post
Keep a musical instrument aboard the boat, if you can play it.

One of my favorite sailing memories is when hundreds of miles from land while on a long voyage out of Kauai, another sailboat traveling in the same direction came close to have a gam. What made it really memorable was that when the boat came close to us, the skipper was in the cockpit playing an Irish tune on his fiddle. It was unexpected and a wonderful thing!

I love fiddle music, Irish music, bluegrass, etc. I also thought with a smile of how a gam happened back during the age of sail, when boats meeting in mid ocean would get together for a little entertainment and diversion and morale boost. Unforgettable!
That's a lovely memory. I bought the psaltry several years ago but barely learned to play a few simple tunes before packing it away for a long nap. But spending time on this and other things is a goal in my "retirement". You have inspired me to keep that image alive.


Someone back a ways said that minimalism on a sail boat was impossible because of all the spares, etc. But I disagree. Even a well stocker 38 footer like ours IS a minimal life compared to the overstuffed 3 + bedroom home, (formerly occupied by 5 people who parted with nothing and took little post divorce) we are in right now. Oops..that's formerly overstuffed.
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