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Old 24-09-2016, 11:29   #31
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Re: May I rant about too much "stuff"?

i am soo very very serious about scrub pants!!! mail sucks. unreliable at best... if you returning to mazatlan i will be here in the marina mazatlan forever and elebenty seben days. mine is the formosa tryng to hide from termites present in swarms on another formosa.. eeeepsss...... scary.
pm me, we chat or such..

landlocked squidly--- i, too, appreciate the subtleties of sounds emanating from various guitars. there is a difference many cannot discern, yet makes or breaks the effecting of the project.
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Old 24-09-2016, 11:43   #32
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Re: May I rant about too much "stuff"?

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Originally Posted by Sea Dreaming View Post
Oh boy, stuff! Stuff stuff everywhere! Mine, his, ours....what happened to "minimalism", "traveling light", "lightening the load"???
We are going to have a "come to Jesus" moment very soon. It won't be pretty....

Here is the scenario:
Him; 60 shirts and he "might" get rid of half. Dress shirts, with buttons....
He packed 6 ties! The last time he wore a tie was Christmas 2013. 1 tie will do eh?
He packed 10 framed photos of his kids....where will he hang them? He packed 4 afghans that his mother made. Blah blah blah... (that blah blah is mocking myself, not him!)
Oh yeah, and he insisted on place setting for 8. (Last dinner party we threw was Thanksgiving 2014)

Meanwhile, across the boat

My entire wardrobe fits in carry on luggage. Fat pants included.
BUT, I have enough yarn to knit for a year. I have, ahem, something on the order of 600 colored and graphite pencils. Drawing paper, drawing tools (of which there are many) A portable easel. 2 sewing machines (though one will be given away in mexico)
I think I have something like 200 hand sewing needles, 100 or more machine needles.
(I also had 60 spools of thread, now just 6 not including uv thread)

We both have instruments him a guitar, me a psaltry.

No, of course we don't need all this stuff. Really, we dont. I'll get my collection of drawing supplies and yarn down to a large shoe box (maybe two ). I never thought it would be so tough!

But I'm struggling on how to reign in my guy. He wants to carry full camping gear, dive equipment, of course tools and spares. And his 30 shirts and 6 ties. And fishing gear. And.....

I know reality will strike and we will both feel easier about parting with stuff. But I spent the entire day organizing all this stuff and well, I had enough! Or should I say we have enough?

I won't even rant about all the stuff we parted with this year or last...I will give a hint though, it involves a 2,400 square foot house with garage, 3 construction skiffs, Craigs list adds,and countless donation to the good will. Oh yeah and 1/4 container of more stuff shipped to family overseas (no exaggeration). And we still have enough stuff to stage the house for showing!

So the question is, how to reign in a pack rat?
I'm going to give you a completely different suggestion, from all of the foregoing.

Let him figure it out for himself, and don't worry about it.

You will be making a big mistake, to allow this to become an interpersonal issue. It's only stuff.
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Old 24-09-2016, 12:06   #33
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Re: May I rant about too much "stuff"?

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Originally Posted by uncle stinkybob View Post
Exactly, available space aboard dictates what does not go. and weight.
The two motorcycle story sound's very interesting, bet there's a good story there, no? My last bike is going up for sale, it's feeling more like an anchor these days, after riding more than 50 years, it's odd to hear myself say that. But a 900lb motorcycle just won't fit on the boat. LOL
Yeah, I hear you. We still own our bikes, and it's hard to let them go. I love travelling on two wheels. Our big trip last winter was amazing. We drove nearly 20,000 km, across Canada to the west coast, then down to northern California, through the deserts to the Gulf coast, and then back north through mid-continent states (Texas, Arkansas, Mississippi, Kentucky, etc.). We camped most of the time.

After you've lived out of a few saddle bags for seven months, the space on any boat seems luxurious.

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I'm going to give you a completely different suggestion, from all of the foregoing.

Let him figure it out for himself, and don't worry about it.

You will be making a big mistake, to allow this to become an interpersonal issue. It's only stuff.
Exactly. That's what I was saying. Allocate the space equally, then each of you can fill it whatever each of you think you need. After a while you both will learn what is truly important.
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Old 25-09-2016, 07:22   #34
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Re: May I rant about too much "stuff"?

I'm thinking that the "stuff" quotient should be accepted as different by the individual.

I feel more freedom with a very low "stuff" count per person. I'm most pleased with drawers or cabinets that have some empty spaces, but my wife has a different tolerance of stuff. I have one quarter of the shelf space in our forward head for toiletries, medication, etc. and Nancie has half of this space with the remaining quarter for shared items. Sometimes I find it difficult to defend the open clearance between my items while her's are at risk of an avalanche.

In general, throughout our boat, we keep some spaces unoccupied. We could always take on a couple of guest crew with a fair amount of their gear.

I've seen the plans of others with a much higher ratio of stuff/person than us,- some more successful than others. We have friends that have highly organized use of all their space and others living in chaos.

I visited a boat (sistership of mine) with a solo captain that had so much stuff aboard that even the companionway steps had been changed into shelves with just a toe hold remaining on each step. Even the entire deck was restricted to specific opportunities to walk around storage compartments.

I'd accept others to live as they please, but for me, there's a great freedom in non-ownership!
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Old 25-09-2016, 08:50   #35
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Re: May I rant about too much "stuff"?

Too much stuff. A good topic for any potential liveaboard.

While I am not yet a liveaboard, it is my goal and I am working towards that. Part of that is to have just enough "stuff" to move aboard a boat for full time permanent "liveaboard."

For years I was tied down (anchored) by literally tons of Stuff. I had more than an average single guy, as I had a business (art gallery) and a tendency to collect things I love (books and CDs etc.).

To begin traveling the way I wanted to (long term), I stored everything in a warehouse where it took up a lot of room and expense. Then I "consolidated" to multiple climate controlled storage units, and spent thousands and thousands of dollars over a few years on storing things I never used (lesson there) and never missed (realization). It was costly, and really a waste of money, but at the time I was not ready to "let go" of those things I had collected and accumulated over many years.

I have found the most difficult things to let go are the ones that I made (I am an artist). Some are large, and mean a lot to me, and were made for my personal enjoyment (not for sale, and to show in my own home). But, they will not fit on a boat. My solution is to make digital copies of them that will be viewable on my iPad or on a Flat Screen TV (on the boat). I have done this for many things now, and I do still enjoy seeing them, even if they are much smaller. They are NOT the same (no texture, some lacking the optical illusions I enjoyed creating), but I can remember those things.

Once I "let go" of the stuff, I was more free to travel (an important personal goal) and have truly enjoyed "living with less" and the freedom that comes from that. In the last few years I have been able to do more traveling with less, and have succeeded in reaching some goals, going further than expected on several levels, and have enjoyed the challenges as much as possible.

I also lost a lot of things, which I considered "priceless" and wanted to keep, due to a flood. This was a total loss, unanticipated, and at first "devastating" because so much was lost and irreplaceable. But, I came to see it as another lesson of life. We all lose things (or people) and accepting some losses and then moving on is what is important.

For the last year I have been looking at each new thing I buy through a filter "Will this fit on a boat, and will I need it?"

This has applied to everything I think of buying or having, from pots and pans to clothing, shoes, hats, etc.

While I love books, I have decided that almost all new "books" I acquire will be digital versions to read on my iPad or Kindle. Similarly, I had a large collection of music on about 1,000 CDs. The ability to find/store/play music digitally (on small devices) has eliminated the need for those.

I now look at garments and think "How will this work on a boat? Where will it fit?"

I think it naturally takes some time to transition from "land thinking" to "boat thinking" if one is considering living aboard the boat and without any land home.

I am getting closer to my goals (sometimes faster than anticipated and sometimes slower than I would like) and have made huge progress in disposing of things, of "letting go" of things. As I see it, each gift I give (furniture, clothing, art, etc.) or thing I leave behind is getting me closer to where I want to be.

Lastly, I don't think everyone has to "give it all up" to enjoy saiiling or cruising, even extensively. Some members of CF obviously do a LOT of sailing/cruising and still keep a home and all the stuff in it. So, there are different ways to live, sail, and enjoy. When I come to CF, I enjoy reading the posts from those who maintain a land home as well as those who have only a life on the water, whether they spend most of the time in one location (marina or anchor outs) or travel extensively. Different strokes for different folks.

Good luck on your own journey.
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Old 01-10-2016, 17:51   #36
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Re: May I rant about too much "stuff"?

Steady, I am an "explorer" of crafts. I've done many many things over the years. I don't have much talent but I've enjoyed all my explorations. Sometimes though, I have made something of great emotional value to me. A handmade book, a pair of shoes and full Tudor era costume made to be as historically accurate in materials and techniques as possible etc etc etc.
But being, what my mother calls "a bridge burner" I've jettisoned these precious things with nary a hint of remorse. The trick is knowing I can and will make more stuff and wanting something else much more strongly.
I am not religious but grew up in a Christian house hold and the phrase "God made man in his image" comes to mind often. I always take this phrase to mean, if there is a God, he made us not to look like himself but he made us to create! God creates, humans create. I have no doubt, boat or no, we will keep creating because we simply cannot help ourselves.
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Old 02-10-2016, 01:08   #37
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Re: May I rant about too much "stuff"?

I can only tell you what we did -- first we allocated clothing space for everyday stuff in easy to get area - converted a hanging locker to shelves and that helped. But that is just everyday items we wear each day - all other clothes got put on hold

then came the boat parts - most important of all are the boat parts - big problem if you fill the storage area with clothes, art supplies, fine china, keep sakes, ect and get to a remote anchorage and you water pump decides to take a dump and there is no where to get a new one except a long sail to somewhere. Or something else breaks and you got a lot of personal stuff but not enough boat stuff -

To us the boat comes first and our stuff comes second - does not mean we do not have a few nice items on board as we do but our priority is make sure we can keep the boat running first - Oh yea the admiral says we got to many boat parts but then again she did not complain when we lost a water pump and I simply pulled out the spare and put it in and we did not have to move off anchorage

just our thoughts
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Old 02-10-2016, 04:12   #38
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Re: May I rant about too much "stuff"?

I think back of other discussions about downsizing and dealing with all this "stuff". I realize again that I have no real experience or advice other than for the young couple that is fresh out of school and only owns the amount of "stuff" than can fit in the trunk of their car. Simply don't start accumulating!

We do well without all the "stuff" because we never had it!
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Old 02-10-2016, 04:38   #39
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Re: May I rant about too much "stuff"?

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I think back of other discussions about downsizing and dealing with all this "stuff". I realize again that I have no real experience or advice other than for the young couple that is fresh out of school and only owns the amount of "stuff" than can fit in the trunk of their car. Simply don't start accumulating!

We do well without all the "stuff" because we never had it!
Wise advice for young sailors j u st starting out!

Back when I was young I had a habit of purging and I felt guilty for everything I got rid of.
Even today I still only have enough stuff to fit into my hatchback on my Fiesta and I'm still getting rid of some of it as I organize our boat stuff.

I realized yesterday that everything we have for the boat only fills a 6 foot closet. It's still too much stuff in my opinion. But that's far better than all the stuff BF crammed into his 2,400 sq ft house. "over stuffed" just barely describes it. I think, in the time I've know Jim, we have donated about 10 full size long bed pickup trucks full of stuff. That does not include what has been sold. As of yesterday we now only have enough stuff to furnish a small apartment. But all of it is just for our temporary comfort and goes to good will as soon as the house is sold.

House sale stats - on t h e market for 4 days, 10 lookers, 2 serious, no offers yet. Soon soon!
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Old 02-10-2016, 04:40   #40
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Re: May I rant about too much "stuff"?

Oh and Z, I did not get you plaid pants....
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Old 02-10-2016, 04:55   #41
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Re: May I rant about too much "stuff"??

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Downsizing can be hard. Though luckily some things will take just a little time. Things on boats tend to get a bit musty with time. So those 30 shirts will be 5 shirts and 25 rags in due time. Alas such will be the yarn and rovings too. (I spun for a while and owned mohair goats, llama's and alpaca's in a prior life).

Photo's and books tend to get a bit weather worn too. Mainly when it rains and the boat is closed up. High humidity is hard of stuff.

Rule of thump, if you have not used it in a year and it's not a memento or important spare part, toss it.

When I first moved aboard I had downsized to 15 pairs of shoes. Now I'm down to flip flops, sea boots and one pair of semi-dress shoes that I never wear. OK I have a dirty pair of tennis shoes too for bike riding. I have no business attire, no dresses and one skirt. Of course that took years to get to my now spartan ways.

Enjoy the adventure.

"Rule of Thump"? I actually like that, typo or not.

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Old 02-10-2016, 05:11   #42
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Re: May I rant about too much "stuff"?

I did do the get rid of everything that wasn't useful or could fit into some locker on the boat... and saved some stuff stored in my brother's attic.

Once I returned to dirt with the boat nearby... the whole "stuff" thing changed again... Enter the new wife... who IS a collector and somewhat addicted to owning nice stuff... She's not a clothes horse.. but compared to men she is.

The trouble is even with a large apartment... we acquired too much stuff and not it's full up to the gunwales... and we rarely get rid of stuff except donate clothes and toss out old shoes... There's lots we keep around expecting to need it or use it some day... and it rarely is and this applies to out of style no longer fitting clothes or shoes for example.

I also have sort of parallel collections of stuff... tools on the boat and tools at the apartment...

I could easily life a more spartan life on dirt... getting things and getting rid of them.. art and keep sakes are another matter. They ARE collectible... and they consume space, need to be constantly seen and do give *pleasure*. It's the stuff in neat piles, file cans, hidden away in closet and cabinets and drawers. YUCK.. Why do we need so many dishes again?

I would love for a meme to develop where people are required to periodically have *garage* sales and pass their stuff along to others who can use it... recycle I guess you'd call it and recover a wee bit of the cost, regardless of the value the stuff provided. Same applies to boat stuff. I contacted BoatsRus I mean BoatUS and told them to sponsor a boat garage sale at marinas all around the country each 2 months, I would love to recycle some of my old boat stuff that can serve someone... Why not?
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Old 02-10-2016, 09:51   #43
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Re: May I rant about too much "stuff"?

We just got rid of our last bin of useless stuff just today. It took us nearly 18 months, but we're finally down to what we need on boat, and what we need for ourselves. Helps to be out cruising, with only our boat to call home.

Only having a smallish boat to call home means there is limited space for "stuff." When you have no choice, the choice is easy.
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Old 03-10-2016, 00:30   #44
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Re: May I rant about too much "stuff"?

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I can only tell you what we did -- first we allocated clothing space for everyday stuff in easy to get area - converted a hanging locker to shelves and that helped. But that is just everyday items we wear each day - all other clothes got put on hold

then came the boat parts - most important of all are the boat parts - big problem if you fill the storage area with clothes, art supplies, fine china, keep sakes, ect and get to a remote anchorage and you water pump decides to take a dump and there is no where to get a new one except a long sail to somewhere. Or something else breaks and you got a lot of personal stuff but not enough boat stuff -

To us the boat comes first and our stuff comes second - does not mean we do not have a few nice items on board as we do but our priority is make sure we can keep the boat running first - Oh yea the admiral says we got to many boat parts but then again she did not complain when we lost a water pump and I simply pulled out the spare and put it in and we did not have to move off anchorage

just our thoughts

I forgot one thing that needs a bit of room for storage -- FOOD -- kind of important if you want to live
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Old 03-10-2016, 04:24   #45
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Re: May I rant about too much "stuff"?

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I forgot one thing that needs a bit of room for storage -- FOOD -- kind of important if you want to live
Food
Cooking, food prep, food storage, equipment & supplies
Barbecue gear and supplies
Drinks
Spare parts (for main engine, generator, plumbing, refrigeration, pumps, gas system, electrical equipment, electronics, etc., etc., etc.)
Materials for making repairs
Paint, various chemicals, supplies for maintenance
Cleaning supplies and equipment
Tools
Office supplies (printer, computer(s), cables, paper, ink cartridges, envelopes, notebooks, etc., etc., etc.)
Workshop equipment
Electrical repairs kit (tools, parts, materials, components)
Plumbing repairs kit (tools, parts, materials, components)
Sail repair kit
Spare parts and components for rigging & deck hardware
Spare rope
Sails
Domestic equipment (vacuum cleaner, dehumidifier, etc.)
Dive and snorkel gear
Dinghy & associated equipment & spare parts
Dinghy fuel supply
Navigation and chartwork tools and gear
Binoculars, HBC's, etc.
Folding cart for hauling groceries
Spare fuel & water jugs
Emergency gear & grab bag
Portable radio gear
Manuals and books


it just goes on and on and on and on -- that's before even getting to personal things like clothes and articles of personal hygiene, bedding, towels, etc.


If you want to be really autonomous and capable of cruising for even a few days at a time without civilization, you need an enormous amount of carp. So you don't even have any choice about "minimalism" -- you're forced into it by the sheer mass of stuff which is actually essential. That's why cruisers are ruthless about throwing things away -- you just can't afford to keep anything on board which you don't really need. That's also why marina dumpster diving is so profitable -- so much perfectly good stuff gets chucked just because it's impossible to store it.

My boat -- despite interior volume probably 4x my previous, 37' boat, is stuffed to the gills. Every nook and cranny is full of stuff, and I use the unoccupied sleeping cabins for storage when I don't have crew or guests on board.

Another really serious problem is getting at stuff, especially in a seaway. One of the activities I hate more than anything is "lazarette diving" -- which very often involves simply unpacking the entire space in order to get at something. But "locker diving" inside can be just as bad, taking cushions out or pulling sole plates up -- ugh! I get nauseous just thinking about. How I long for a proper walk-in engine room with accessible storage for all my tools and parts, and for proper deck storage with multiple access point, and not a single deep lazarette like I have now.


My next boat will be a bit larger than this one, and for real autonomy, and even more, for easier access to stored things, it will have a different proportion between storage space and living space ("barn" vs "house"). It will have 2x or even 3x as much storage space as I have now, and less living space.
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