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Old 08-09-2010, 12:41   #106
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Originally Posted by Bash View Post
I can attest that most of my upper-division undergraduate students would readily be able to describe the life cycles of the more common zooplanktons. Photoplanktons might be a bit more tricky, but an average student would certainly be capable of locating the data.
So, my dear home-brew scientists: what is the difference between the photoplankton and the PHYTOPLANKTON, and which of the two were the subject of the original alarm?

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Old 08-09-2010, 12:59   #107
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In this context, I believe they are more or less synonymous, though photoplankton is more commonly used.

Phyto means plant.
Photo refers to light (as in photosynthesis).
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Old 08-09-2010, 12:59   #108
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For those who care to investigate here are a couple of links you may wish to view.

First, from the US Department of Energy

http://www.envirosecurity.org/news/a...alSecurity.pdf

Now from Berkeley Labs

IMPACTS: On the Threshold of Abrupt Climate Changes Berkeley Lab News Center

And this from the DOD

http://www.jfcom.mil/newslink/storyarchive/2010/JOE_2010_o.pdf

It is interesting that the DOD, without making any definite claims, has seen fit to list climate change as one of its
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"ten trends most likely to impact the Joint Force".
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Old 08-09-2010, 13:01   #109
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Originally Posted by Ahnlaashock View Post
What raw data that still exists is corrupt. Now, how do we proceed?
We proceed as follows:

- when in a marina, we do not dump our crap, cleaning agents nor hormones into the water - we will use the marina facilities,
- the ambitious ones can ask the marina personnel for the reasons why the marina facilities dump the stuff right into the marina,

- when in the anchorage, we will dump rather than use all the de-odouring and de-calcifying chemistry added to the holding tanks (after which both our c(...) and the chemistry are discretely pumped out at night,
- the ambitious ones will use bio-degradable dish washing liquid and collect whatever can be disposed off in an environment friendly manner.

If the procedures given above are proven wrong, we will follow the ones which are better for the environment.

C'mon people - let's stop pretending. One lives, one pollutes. Minimize your footprint and be honest in trying to do so.

We can't make the change by asking 'How'. We can only make the change by acting.

Understanding why the pollution kills the plankton does nothing towards protecting our environment. Stopping the pollution may. (And as a by-product, will make ours and our children's cruising life better).

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Old 08-09-2010, 13:08   #110
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B. Good points and no disagreements.

But there seem to be some holdout's who think that they can pollute how ever much they want and it should cost them nothing. It should never impact their wallet. It should not impact their life style. It is those I am trying to reach.

But the argument is tiring.
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Old 08-09-2010, 14:31   #111
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But the argument is tiring.
But it is a good argument as it goes on and on and on and on and...............

Pssst, CO2 maybe called a greenhouse gas but it's greenhouse effects are minuscule and trivial and of no real relevance.
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Old 08-09-2010, 14:35   #112
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Pssst, CO2 maybe called a greenhouse gas but it's greenhouse effects are minuscule and trivial and of no real relevance.
There is some truth in that. Methane and water vapour are also greenhouse gases. Methane is a much, much stronger absorber than CO2 and whilst water is a weak absorber there is simply so much of it in the air.
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Old 08-09-2010, 22:42   #113
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Originally Posted by GordMay View Post
Wow! A dozen website visits will certainly develop an expertise, almost as good as spending the night at a Holiday Inn.

The life span of plankton generally depends on their size. Most of the larger animal plankton live several months, but some (ie: jellyfish) may live more than a year.

For the one-celled plankton, it isn't possible to give a life span, because they reproduce by dividing in two, so how old is a cell? However, the one-celled plankton divide every few hours to every few days, depending on the species and the growth conditions.
Says Gord, authoritatively because he actually visited 24 websites and "did" stay at a Holiday Inn last night -

Quote:
Originally Posted by David_Old_Jersey View Post
I do

That's why I set up "The Plankton Foundation" (The Charity that runs the Sanctuary has a name now ). Send me the money and someone else gets to deal with all the dull stuff. Like facts. Simply writing a cheque or sending a paypal will solve the problem. Fact

Donate Now!
Donate Often!
Donate to Me!

If you don't Donate it means you don't care about GW. and weather stuff.
Don't listen to DoJ - My foundation will save the plankton for only 75 cents a month. And every month you will receive a card or letter telling you how your plankton is doing.

You will receive pictures of your plankton in its own environment, with clean water, nourishing food and books to read so your plankton can evolve into a better creature.

(Besides DoJ already has the goat thing...)

Quote:
Originally Posted by hpeer View Post

But there seem to be some holdout's who think that they can pollute how ever much they want and it should cost them nothing. It should never impact their wallet. It should not impact their life style. It is those I am trying to reach.
If you think you are going to convince "everyone" on the internet I think you may end up a crazy person.

Just sayin' is all
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Old 09-09-2010, 07:00   #114
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Originally Posted by Ex-Calif View Post
Says Gord, authoritatively because he actually visited 24 websites and "did" stay at a Holiday Inn last night ...
... If you think you are going to convince "everyone" on the internet I think you may end up a crazy person.
Just sayin' is all
Ah, but I didn’t. It only took me one visit, to the first site Google returned to my query, to get a reasonable answer*.
And I’m not even one of Bash’s upper-division undergraduate students.

I’ve lost hope that anyone will ever change their, made-up, mind, due to a convincing argument (on the internet, or anywhere).

Quote:
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Wow! A dozen website visits will certainly develop an expertise, almost as good as spending the night at a Holiday Inn.

* The life span of plankton generally depends on their size. Most of the larger animal plankton live several months, but some (ie: jellyfish) may live more than a year.

For the one-celled plankton, it isn't possible to give a life span, because they reproduce by dividing in two, so how old is a cell? However, the one-celled plankton divide every few hours to every few days, depending on the species and the growth conditions.
yuk, yuk, jabs elbo in ribs, etc ...
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Old 09-09-2010, 07:31   #115
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Greg Craven is Wrong!

Regarding Greg Craven's argument...apply the same to other world ending possibilities such as a large meteor hit, a new deadly virus (perhaps made by genetic engineering), wheat failure due to a rogue strain from the lab, etc.

On a personal level consider encountering a rogue wave while crossing an ocean. The consequences could disasterous and may include loss of vessel and possibly life. The end result on a personal level is just as bad as the results on a global scale.

Consequently, his argument is just plain wrong from several directions. We cannot possible address every risk factor no matter how small even if the consequences are bad.
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Old 09-09-2010, 08:30   #116
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Regarding Greg Craven's argument ...
... his argument is just plain wrong from several directions. We cannot possible address every risk factor no matter how small even if the consequences are bad.
Indeed; even though his conclusion may be (inadvertently) right.
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Old 09-09-2010, 10:32   #117
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Consequently, his argument is just plain wrong from several directions. We cannot possible address every risk factor no matter how small even if the consequences are bad.
That was what I was thinking (a long time ago when he filmed that.......nonsense), I just couldn't put it into words.

Thanks.
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Old 09-09-2010, 15:55   #118
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Like why not invest a small percentage of what the video guy threatens us with towards solving the original question (top left corner of his scheme) ???

I would say if the only way to go is to spend the money anyway ... then why not spend it smart?

And once we do know the answer then choosing between act and non-act becomes a non-brainer.

The video is a scam.

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Old 09-09-2010, 20:41   #119
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Interestingly enough Craven's general approach to hazard analysis is routinely done in most systems engineering and is, IIRC, a milspec process.

But I digress, and I didn't watch the video, I read the book. So there may be more clarity in the later.

If you think that the resultant actions are the same for a killer asteroid and climate change, then there is either something seriously wrong with the video explaining the process, or your understanding of the process. They are very, very different hazard scenarios. One you may be able to plan for, the other, not so much.
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Old 09-09-2010, 21:33   #120
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The crux of the problem seems to be that the public is hearing more and more studies that come from those with an agenda or from those who were paid by someone with an agenda. It is becoming impossible for most people to sort fact from fiction.

Most people know better than to believe everything they hear coming from the media or public figures because those people are not well enough educated to know when they are being lied to. Either that or they have their own agenda. I think it's usually the latter.

The sniff test is probably the most accurate indicator for the public to use in order to discern fact from fiction. If it smells like BS, chances are that it is.
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