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Old 07-09-2010, 18:43   #91
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How to proceed?

How to proceed on such an analysis when a large chunk of the so called data is fiction, what isn't pure fiction is collected in such a way as to render it useless for any kind of science, and another large part has been adjusted, but the original data is no longer available?
What raw data that still exists is corrupt. Now, how do we proceed?
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Old 07-09-2010, 19:23   #92
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The data is NOT corrupt. Scientists have reached a concensus the we are all at risk from man-made changes to the climate. Politicians promoting specific mitigation policies, however, may be corrupt.

Why has this issue become so politicized? Because it is threatening to certain large industries to think of changing in any way that might compromise their profits in favor of the greater good. So corporate special interests lobby against progress on this issue. Scientists and environmental groups don't have the profit motive to lead them to warp reality; industries like coal, oil, mining, and even factory fishing do. They act on the profit motive, view only the bottom line.

Do you really want to align yourself with corporate interests against those who care about the health of the oceans, forests and the survival of nature for future humanity??

Margo
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Old 07-09-2010, 19:44   #93
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Please correct me if I'm wrong, but hasn't the earth been through 5 ice ages? That would mean it has been through 5 global warmings too. We are still coming out of an ice age that got its coldest about 20,000 years ago. Its been getting warmer ever since. I admit that we are speeding up the process, but its still a natural process.
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Old 07-09-2010, 20:00   #94
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Question What's "natural"?

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I admit that we are speeding up the process, but its still a natural process.
That's a big part of the problem. But fast means no time to adapt. Not just us, but everything else too. Is that natural? Just because there have been mass extinctions in the past, doesn't mean it's OK for us to cause one.

And think about it. Do you really think it''s OK for people out of greed, to destroy the world for all the other species? And to cause billions of human deaths from flooding, famine, etc.? It's bad enough when these things happen "naturally", but to shrug and say, oh well, it's too hard to change, so it's OK? That is, as long as it's not me who dies right away!

Humans are special in all of nature. We are the only ones who can appreciate the beauty of nature. We are worth preserving. As much, at least, as whales or lobsters or trees.

Let's go for it! Let's try to save humanity from itself.

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Old 08-09-2010, 05:03   #95
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... I admit that we are speeding up the process, but its still a natural process.
Dying is a natural process, the inevitable end result of living.
Nine out of ten medical doctors, shamans, and herbalists (& I) wouldn’t recommend anything to speed up this natural process.
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Old 08-09-2010, 06:11   #96
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The anti-GW argument is generally framed around the idea that GW's need to PROVE that there is a threat. I think that is a fundamental flaw in the risk analysis.

GW's only need to prove there is a credible threat.

Think of Russian Roulette: I can not PROVE the gun will go off, chances are it won't. Only 1 chance in 6 that it will. But the consequences are such that I don't want to take the risk.

It is the same with the GW argument, maybe there is nothing to be worried about, maybe not. What is the prudent course of action?

I can recommend a little tome, very well written, to lead you through the risk analysis process. WHAT'S THE WORST THAT COULD HAPPEN. It is a good read for all, including sailors, because it teach critical thinking and risk analysis. It is focused on GW but it's methods are appropriate to many other fields.
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Old 08-09-2010, 06:41   #97
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It is the same with the GW argument, maybe there is nothing to be worried about, maybe not. What is the prudent course of action?
I'm convinced

And I'm not just going to sit on the internet boring folks to death about the end of the world

I am setting up a Plankton Sanctuary

For every $1 donated a Plankton can be saved for up to a year.

Do your bit and help fight GW!

Just click on the link:-



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Old 08-09-2010, 07:03   #98
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... I can recommend a little tome, very well written, to lead you through the risk analysis process. WHAT'S THE WORST THAT COULD HAPPEN. It is a good read for all, including sailors, because it teach critical thinking and risk analysis. It is focused on GW but it's methods are appropriate to many other fields.
Greg Craven?



Greg Craven - What’s the Worst That Could Happen? | Point of Inquiry
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Old 08-09-2010, 07:20   #99
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DOJ's superb idea sparked a question - how long do these little guys live? After a dozen or so visits to a list of websites - nobody knows. So much for science.
- - Of more interest is that there are basically two types of plankton, plant and animal. The plant version - according to the various Wiki and other websites start their life-cycle in fresh water - like rivers and such . . . Gee, maybe Global Warning has little to do with this system and instead the pollution of rivers and streams and marsh areas by industrial chemicals and other factors has a lot more to do with the supposed die off. For example: where do you think the hundreds of billions of gallons of coffee poured down drains go? Starbucks, and hundreds of thousands, if not millions of household and office coffee pots and cups are all dumped down the drains which work their way to the rivers and oceans. No wonder these little guys are dying off, they never get a chance to sleep or rest with all the caffeine buzz.
- - Bottom line, as some of the more honest "scientists" will admit there are just too many variables in the functioning of the world's ecosystems to try to pin such things on "one" variable like ocean surface temperature. That is were the claims of "political agenda" aimed science get their start.
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Old 08-09-2010, 07:31   #100
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DOJ's superb idea sparked a question - how long do these little guys live? After a dozen or so visits to a list of websites - nobody knows...
Wow! A dozen website visits will certainly develop an expertise, almost as good as spending the night at a Holiday Inn.

The life span of plankton generally depends on their size. Most of the larger animal plankton live several months, but some (ie: jellyfish) may live more than a year.

For the one-celled plankton, it isn't possible to give a life span, because they reproduce by dividing in two, so how old is a cell? However, the one-celled plankton divide every few hours to every few days, depending on the species and the growth conditions.
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Old 08-09-2010, 08:30   #101
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Gordmay - nobody including me is claiming to "develop an expertise" that is insulting and an uncalled for comment. It seems those living on land these days are all into emulating Don Rickles.
- - What the search of Wiki and other plankton sites showed is the supposed experts writing about the subject seem to not be concerned enough to state either an average lifespan or make any statement to the effect of the range of lifespans. Lifespan for dividing cells is generally accepted to be from division to the next division and/or could be titled reproduction lifespan.
- - Either way the comment I was making is that in this real world there are too many variables influencing eco-systems to try to pin a particular observation to one cause.
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Old 08-09-2010, 08:43   #102
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I’m sorry that you'e insulted by my little jape, osirissail.

My point was that, your inability to determine plankton life-spans (from your list of websites), was your failure - not science’s; and the fact that you (or I) don’t know, doesn’t mean that nobody knows.
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Old 08-09-2010, 10:39   #103
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My point was that, your inability to determine plankton life-spans (from your list of websites), was your failure - not science’s; and the fact that you (or I) don’t know, doesn’t mean that nobody knows.
I do

That's why I set up "The Plankton Foundation" (The Charity that runs the Sanctuary has a name now ). Send me the money and someone else gets to deal with all the dull stuff. Like facts. Simply writing a cheque or sending a paypal will solve the problem. Fact

Donate Now!
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Donate to Me!

If you don't Donate it means you don't care about GW. and weather stuff.
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Old 08-09-2010, 10:47   #104
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If you don't Donate it means you don't care about GW. and weather stuff.

I agree that that (above) is a fact!
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Old 08-09-2010, 11:35   #105
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I’m sorry that you'e insulted by my little jape, osirissail.

My point was that, your inability to determine plankton life-spans (from your list of websites), was your failure - not science’s; and the fact that you (or I) don’t know, doesn’t mean that nobody knows.
I can attest that most of my upper-division undergraduate students would readily be able to describe the life cycles of the more common zooplanktons. Photoplanktons might be a bit more tricky, but an average student would certainly be capable of locating the data.
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