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Old 23-10-2010, 16:25   #586
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"unscrupulous" - layman, street definition => modern, contemporary politician
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Old 23-10-2010, 17:09   #587
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If it has a good pay back you should conserve by making the change. For corporations with large utility bills this has significant returns. You can argue about global warming maybe ocean acidification but here is what is happening.
http://www.medindia.net/news/Greenla...ze-72435-1.htm
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Old 23-10-2010, 23:39   #588
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If it has a good pay back you should conserve by making the change. For corporations with large utility bills this has significant returns. You can argue about global warming maybe ocean acidification but here is what is happening.
Greenland Glacier Loses Ice Chunk '4 Times Manhattan's Size'
Thats what has always happened where Glaciers meet the sea and has nothing to do with AGW it's how icebergs are formed and is called calving, nothing at all to be alarmed about
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Old 24-10-2010, 03:32   #589
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pirate

Seems the whole worlds 'Leaders..?' have adopted the US technique of managing the 'Chattering Classes'.....
Keep the people paranoid.......
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Old 24-10-2010, 06:02   #590
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Thats what has always happened where Glaciers meet the sea and has nothing to do with AGW it's how icebergs are formed and is called calving, nothing at all to be alarmed about
I'll raise you onesatellite radar interferometry observations.
Changes in the Velocity Structure of the Greenland Ice Sheet -- Rignot and Kanagaratnam 311 (5763): 986 -- Science

Usually what happens now is you paste a google search result which proves that the scientists writing the report were drunk gluesniffing schoolkids and Greenland is now selling glaciers on ebay as it has to many.
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Old 24-10-2010, 07:20   #591
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Thats what has always happened where Glaciers meet the sea and has nothing to do with AGW it's how icebergs are formed and is called calving, nothing at all to be alarmed about
Along this same vein, the Antarctic glaciers calve off icebergs 4 times or more larger than this Greenland one and have been doing so for many decades. There was a news story many, many years ago that the Saudi's were going to attach engines/ships to one really huge Antarctic iceberg and drag it to the Persian Gulf and use it for a fresh water supply.

- - If you research the climate history of the planet for the last half billion years or so, the available data shows that we are in the fifth cold/hot cycle and currently trending towards another "hot" planet cycle. See the graph below - but be careful the horizontal time axis shifts scale 5 times to amplify the recent past.

- - That the Earth is warming is as certain as a northern hemisphere person in March assuming/knowing that come June the temperatures will be much warmer. The debate is two-fold: Are humans having any effect on the natural processes either to start them or to amplify/increase the natural warming cycle; and secondly, can humans do anything to stop/reverse or mitigate or nullify the human influence on the natural processes of a warming Earth.

- - My conclusion is categorically - no - when you look at the "large scale" picture of the earth's temperature swings. If you look at the microscopic time scale - which is what the ACC/AGW proponents use to generate cash flow - you can see accelerations and decelerations of the natural warming of the planet. Past records of the Earth's temperature history shows dramatic temperature spikes ten times or more larger than what the ACC/AGW lobby is fretting about as "human caused."
- - It is a case of the little ant arguing with the elephant about the size/depth of the elephant's footprint in the mud. To the ant's scale of reference it is enormous; to the elephant it is inconsequential.
- - The Earth is a finite size, but the human ego is a magnitude larger and human's (at least some humans) are convinced that humans are the beginning, middle and end of all existence and of all things of importance. Which is exactly what has been taught and drilled into virtually all "western" cultures for the last 2 thousand years or so. I like the most modern phrase in current use in such "visions of self importance" circumstances - - "Get over yourself."
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Old 24-10-2010, 07:23   #592
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Last year Beth Leonard gave a very entertaining and informative presentation at the Annapolis SSCA Gam. It concerned her cruising Chilies fjords and her visit to Horn.

At the very end someone asked her about the state of the glaciers and she said, to the effect, "From the time of our fist visit to the time of our second trip there has been a great and troublsome retreat of the glaciers."
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Old 24-10-2010, 07:38   #593
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Some may want to view this article from Scientific American, item #2 addresses these claims.

Seven Answers to Climate Contrarian Nonsense: Scientific American

Claim 2: The alleged "hockey stick" graph of temperatures over the past 1,600 years has been disproved. It doesn't even acknowledge the existence of a "medieval warm period" around 1000 A.D. that was hotter than today is. Therefore, global warming is a myth.



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Old 24-10-2010, 08:19   #594
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I like the most modern phrase in current use in such "visions of self importance" circumstances - - "Get over yourself."
Seems the chart shows it as sort of "settling out".
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Old 24-10-2010, 09:27   #595
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Seems the chart shows it as sort of "settling out".
The point of the chart is to look at large blocks of time versus little spans of time. The great thing about statistics/data is somebody can "slice and dice" it to seemingly support whatever point they wish to push.
- - Look at the expanded middle sections and you will notice spikes of temperature increases and then a period of minor "vibrations" near the bottom/cold periods. Move to the right of the graph and by expanding (narrowing in on a small period of time) the graph you see even smaller vibrations within the bigger vibrations. Zooming down even to a smaller time scale of the last 10K years you see minor vibrations trending to a upward curve of temperature increase. So you have vibrations (increase/decrease in global temperatures) within vibrations within vibrations as you expand the time scale to view smaller periods of time.
- - Nobody is overtly lying, they are just selectively extracting data that supports their agenda. Either side is looking/arguing over less than one degree C variation in temperature when in historical perspective changes of up to 20 degrees C have been recorded in the climate archaeological records during really small periods of time. Here is a link to the topic of bias by this or that climate change group. -
The Washington Pest: IPCC's Artful Bias

- - Here is an almost comical graph of very recent earth temperature changes from NASA - It seems the temperature increases in the southern hemisphere of the Earth are lower than those in the northern hemisphere - obvious to anybody that the northern hemisphere is heating more rapidly - definitely due to ACC => more politicians there.
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Old 24-10-2010, 20:46   #596
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NOAA --- Arctic Report Card: Update for 2010

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Return to previous Arctic conditions is unlikelyRecord temperatures across Canadian Arctic and Greenland, a reduced summer sea ice cover, record snow cover decreases and links to some Northern Hemisphere weather support this conclusion
Arctic Report Card

http://www.arctic.noaa.gov/reportcar...ull_report.pdf
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Old 25-10-2010, 05:40   #597
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http://www.ihatethemedia.com/12-more...global-warming

And, if there really is warming to the extent that the sea level rises, wouldn't that just mean more places to sail?
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Old 25-10-2010, 06:03   #598
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Your correspondent cites “Discovery” as his source for point #1(“Himalayan glaciers are growing, not shrinking”). Should you read the original article, you’d see that “I hate the media.” has grossly misrepresented the source article.

Here’s a representative quotation:

“... Throughout much of the Tibetan Plateau, high-altitude glaciers are dwindling in the face of rising temperatures. The situation is potentially dire for the hundreds of millions of people living in China, India and throughout southeast Asia who depend on the glaciers for their water supply.

But in the rugged western corner of the plateau, the story is different, according to a new study. Among legendary peaks of Mt. Everest like K2 and Nanga Parbat, glaciers with a penthouse view of the world are growing, and have been for almost three decades...

... Surging glaciers are common and do not necessarily mean a glacier is growing in overall size. But the fact that dozens of them have all surged in the same region hints that larger climate forces are at work...”

Goto ➥ Himalayan Glaciers Seem to Be Growing : Discovery News
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Old 25-10-2010, 10:17   #599
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Global warming predicts an increase in glaciation at higher levels and a decrease at lower which is consistant with what we are seeing for what it's worth.
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Old 25-10-2010, 20:18   #600
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BBC News - Sea urchins tolerate acid water

Sea urchins seem to fare better than plankton. Life is a complex business.
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