Mass Plankton Die-Off

[Chief Engineer]

In Maryland....you can't sell electricity back to the Utility.

Our rates went up 75% under our current governor.

And they want to palce a higher vehicle registration fee on Electric Vehicles....because they use less gas.....less gas taxes.

[mintyspilot]

Originally Posted by sabray

why won't it happen. If you can invest $!50,000 and get 75,000 in returns you can bet it will happen. I know a family that put solar panels all over their house. Out of pocket its $9000 in 10 years they wont have an electricity bill. My boat is 85% solar. Im typing this without using the grid. It can happen

We changed every bulb in the house from incandescent to compact fluorescent. Our entire house's lighting now uses less power than our neighbour's kitchen lighting - we're down to under 300W if we turn on every light in the house. The kitchen lighting in our house still uses the most power of any single room 4x11W + 9W = 53W and our house is an average sized house.

Electricity consumption can be cut drastically by some very, very simple measures.

[osirissail]

Originally Posted by sabray

. . . When the diesel plants fire up your burning mideast oil and American dollars flow off our borders. . . .

That is a popular misconception fostered by politicians for their purposes. Here is a chart from the US Energy Information Agency and the Mideast (Saudi Arabia) is rather far down the major supplier list.

[hpeer]

True, we could get something like a 15% overall national improvement by going to HVDC distribution. That is a very significant change.

The technology has been there for 10 or 15 years.

Look at our cities, how all the skyscrapers are lite up all night. All the advertising. It is all oh so obvious that there is a lot of wasted energy.

But even if we can clean up our act and reduce waste, is that sufficient to positively effect climate change? For that matter, is it enough to forestall an economic collapse due to resource depletion? Personally I think not.

Regardless, the question is not what is possible.........what are we willing to do????

[osirissail]

Cost effectiveness is what will drive alternative energy sources. And to date nothing is as cost-effective as fossil fuels. As noted above wind power is twice as costly on average.
- - However, solar panels is one of the most inefficient systems and the least cost effective way to get electricity. Even on a cruising boat solar is not cost effective - but - it is highly preferable esthetically to running diesel/gas generators or the main engine.
- - Wind power is great but there is rarely any decent wind everywhere. Thanks to ?whatever? in the southern windward islands we are no longer windy. This year the ITCZ, which historically rarely gets north of half-way between Trinidad and Grenada, is now frequently as far north as Barbados. The good news about that is we are not getting any Tropical Storm systems. The bad news is that we are not getting any trade winds to help keep us cooled down or make wind power. Also we are getting a lot of north boundary rain which has precipitated significant outbreaks of Dengue Fever in these islands. Nasty stuff.
- - But back to solar, especially for houses on land. Estimates of daily average electrical use by US houses varies widely from 1Kwh daily to 1000Kwh daily but the reports seems to settle at around 2Kw per hour averaged over a year. So a popular solar panel costs about US$2.78/watt or US$2,778 per kilowatt. Compare that to public utility prices mentioned above by other posters of US$0.10 to $0.20 per KW and you can see why solar is fine for use in areas where public utility electric is not available (e.g. boats, desert/mountain cabins,etc.) And I won't even add in the batteries, inverters, regulators, etc. that must be purchased to convert solar panel output to usable household power.
- - P.S. One of the best sources for solar panels and accessories is: Solar Electric Power Systems For On & Off Grid
There are others but this is my favorite as they cater to the "desert folks."

[hpeer]

osirissail,

You are a hoot.

Thanks to ?whatever? in the southern windward islands we are no longer windy. This year the ITCZ, which historically rarely gets north of half-way between Trinidad and Grenada, is now frequently as far north as Barbados. The good news about that is we are not getting any Tropical Storm systems. The bad news is that we are not getting any trade winds to help keep us cooled down or make wind power. Also we are getting a lot of north boundary rain which has precipitated significant outbreaks of Dengue Fever in these islands. Nasty stuff.

One of the predicted trademarks of GW is to move the ITCZ outside the predicted boundaries. Me thinks you know that.

Also I agree that a strong downside to off the grid living is storage. Even really great batteries have a relatively short life span, surely no more than 10 years. Then you need replacements, if they are still available.

Coming back to your comments on oil imports:
Canada - surely on the rise despite pressure to curtail the tar sand production due to environmental concerns.
Mexico - is in deep decline, not likely to be a major source in the near future
Nigeria - not very stable
Venezuela - OK, so now we are relying on Chaves as our best bud
Saudi Arabia - Monarchy ruling an Islamic fundamentalist state, stay tuned for the revolution.

Not arguing, just commenting.

[bobsadler]

Facts About Shale Gas from the API (that source of all evil)

[GordMay]

Top World Oil Producers, Exporters, Consumers, and Importers, 2006
➥ Top World Oil Producers, Exporters, Consumers, and Importers, 2006 — Infoplease.com

Top producers:
1. Saudi Arabia
2. Russia
3. United States
4. Iran
5. Mexico
6. China
7. Canada
8. United Arab Emirates
9. Venezuela
10. Norway

Wherever our energy source is produced, we are going to have an increasingly difficult time of producing enough to consume as we wish. I just hope my grandchildren have enough to survive.

As I said in post 394:
“Future generations will not have the resources on which we have built the industrial and economic model of the developed and developing nations. They will need to survive without them and adapt their lives to survive. They will need to develop infinite and sustainable systems. They will have no other choice. If they do not adapt they will perish...”

[foggysail]

I fear not that we face an energy crisis. What I fear is energy regulation resulting from inadequate research by so called experts. I noted a classic example of inadequate research when I referred to Micheal Mann's so called "hockey stick" predictions in one of my earlier posts.

Government reactions to hocky stick predictions have played a major role in focusing attention to heavy taxation. Consider the impact on our country if the Waxman-Markey energy climate bill ever became law of the land.

The cost impact of Waxman-Markey forcing alternate energy use such as wind, solar, geothermal, biomass, marine and hydrokinetic energy, biogas and biofuels derived exclusively from eligible biomass, landfill gas, wastewater-treatment gas, coal-mine methane, hydropower projects (list from Grist-a beacon in the smog) will devastate the economy and life style as we know it today.

The world will never run out of usable energy, it will maybe run out of affordable energy especially if users are burdened with exhorbitant energy taxes based on false premises. Remeber a few years ago (about 3 years) when preditions had the country exhausting natural gas in a few decades? Now with fracking there is an enormous quantity easily available. Of course, there are objections to that by many.

There is no way to please everyone.

Foggy

[roverhi]

I've had extremely poor service from CFL bulbs. Over half of them failed within 6 months of installation. Have to replace another one now in the bathroom. They also can be dangerous in operation. The lag time between flipping the switch and getting light from the bulb in a stairwell, for instance, is inviting an accident. I'm going back to the good old RELIABLE incandescent bulbs.

[mintyspilot]

Originally Posted by roverhi

I've had extremely poor service from CFL bulbs. Over half of them failed within 6 months of installation.

These have lasted years. Made by Philips.

Originally Posted by roverhi

They also can be dangerous in operation. The lag time between flipping the switch and getting light from the bulb in a stairwell, for instance, is inviting an accident.

Either you move a lot faster than I do or you have some strange bulbs. The noticeable delay between flicking the switch and receiving light is less than 1 second. I generally find that I have not moved a significant distance in the sub-second interval.

[Therapy]

Originally Posted by mintyspilot

We changed every bulb in the house from incandescent to compact fluorescent. Our entire house's lighting now uses less power than our neighbour's kitchen lighting - we're down to under 300W if we turn on every light in the house. The kitchen lighting in our house still uses the most power of any single room 4x11W + 9W = 53W and our house is an average sized house.

Electricity consumption can be cut drastically by some very, very simple measures.

Lighting is the smallest percentage use of electricity in most homes.

I Fl it is air conditioning and refrigeration and hot water. Lighting is distant and certainly not a drastic reduction with fluorescents.

LEDs anyone?

Super Bright LEDs - Edison Base Globe Bulbs

PS, I can't get the picture to show. It says "invalid file" yet it is a copy from "properties".

[mintyspilot]

Originally Posted by Therapy

Lighting is the smallest percentage use of electricity in most homes.

I Fl it is air conditioning and refrigeration and hot water. Lighting is distant and certainly not a drastic reduction with fluorescents.

LEDs anyone?

Super Bright LEDs - Edison Base Globe Bulbs

PS, I can't get the picture to show. It says "invalid file" yet it is a copy from "properties".

Apparently, lighting uses 34% of the US's electricty..... Good Stuff? - Lighting | Worldwatch Institute

[Therapy]

Originally Posted by mintyspilot

Apparently, lighting uses 34% of the US's electricty..... Good Stuff? - Lighting | Worldwatch Institute

Uhuh. And from there.

In a typical American household, lighting sources consume a lot of electricity—nearly 2,000 kilowatt-hours per year, or 15 percent of the household's electricity consumption.

And I have not checked into compliance on disposal but I suspect the worst.

While fluorescent lamps save energy, they need to be disposed of properly because they also contain mercury, a highly persistent and toxic chemical that builds up in the tissue of fish, wildlife, and people.

And on their site I see this.

What do you think is the most important step that the global community can take to reduce hunger and poverty?: Increase funding for agricultural research and investment
Recognize the important role that women farmers have in producing food in the developing world
Recognize the role of small farmers in food production and compensate them for carbon sequestration projects





When I see that stuff I just want to scream.

[hpeer]

Yes, there is much greenwashing and people trying to make a buck from the whole GW thing.

That does not prove GW is not happening, it just proves people are........................well..................p eople.