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Old 29-07-2010, 15:00   #16
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Reportedly, the data were included without further comment in a graph on page nine of DEFRA's 2008-2009 Marine Program Plan.

I cannot locate an online copy of DEFRA's 2008-2009 Marine Program Plan, to confirm or deny any of these assertions.

http://www.defra.gov.uk/environment/...book200809.pdf

Here is 2009-2010 Programme Plan link.

http://www.defra.gov.uk/foodfarm/fis...mpp2009-10.pdf

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Latest data for the three headline measures shows reduced inputs of hazardous metals; fish stocks not yet showing a strong response to recent policy changes; and continuing long-term decline of copepod zooplankton linked to climate change.

Then go to page 7 for a graph.

Probably not exactly what you were looking for but generally supportive of the claims.
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Old 30-07-2010, 02:19   #17
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Here is 2009-2010 Programme Plan link.

http://www.defra.gov.uk/foodfarm/fis...mpp2009-10.pdf

Then go to page 7 for a graph.

Probably not exactly what you were looking for but generally supportive of the claims.
Thanks for finding it.

Not a scientific report on the marine environment, more of a "please don't cut our budget" pleading document. If that is what the press is basing its reportage on then the reports are junk.
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Old 30-07-2010, 05:05   #18
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here's some other interesting tidbits - all part of the massive worldwide conspiracy, of course!:

2010 had the hottest June ever - Yahoo! News
I love these claims! The earth is 4.54 billiion years old with a human history of a few thousands of years. Not to mention that a thermometer wasn't invented until 1754. Hottest ever....
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Old 30-07-2010, 05:18   #19
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I love these claims! The earth is 4.54 billiion years old with a human history of a few thousands of years. Not to mention that a thermometer wasn't invented until 1754. Hottest ever....
there's not a single scientific paper or news story that doesn't make that clear in the body of the text. headlines are written to be snappy and fill a finite space.
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Old 30-07-2010, 06:38   #20
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there's not a single scientific paper or news story that doesn't make that clear in the body of the text. headlines are written to be snappy and fill a finite space.
Read an article in it's enirety? That just doesn't make sense and that would take away from forum browsing.

I am not suggesting that climate change isn't real. I am suggesting that NOAA satallite data isn't comparable to point data collected 200 years ago.

Just my 2 cents.
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Old 30-07-2010, 06:41   #21
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One has to have one's head pretty far up one's as* to figure there's no likely problem(s) caused by the population growth.....3 Billion in 1960 to 7 Billion in 2011.
Burning 85Million barrels a day, vs 20 million in 1960
Duh!
Kinda like the folks who insisted that house prices could never go down significantly, and that anyone who suggested it was a wacko.
I'm buggered if I know what can be done....but, lordy lordy, at least let's all acknowledge that the issue is real.
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Old 30-07-2010, 07:09   #22
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Are there people living naked under trees eating berries, but not passing them, because Lord knows that would add to Global Warming, or is Al Gore and the like just lining there pockets while living the high life. A $4k electric bill for a month, yeah right...jeez...
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Old 30-07-2010, 07:41   #23
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Are there people living naked under trees eating berries, but not passing them, because Lord knows that would add to Global Warming, or is Al Gore and the like just lining there pockets while living the high life. A $4k electric bill for a month, yeah right...jeez...
Bob - I am a liveaboard with no TV, no A/C. I take the bus into work. My carbon footprint is pretty small. Having said that, I'd be the first person to admit those lifestyle choices weren't made for the environment - they were decisions made primarily for other reasons that just happened to be ecologically friendly.

I don't begrudge others a "normal" lifestyle. Changing the way we live would help; however, the problem is bigger than that. But make no mistake - there is a big problem and we deal with it now, or pay the consequences later. Simple as that.

I do wish, however, that climate-change deniers would give up on poor Al Gore. Because you personality hate Al doesn't mean the work of hundreds, if not thousands, of legitimate scientists the world over is suddenly invalidated. It doesn't work that way.

Where's that "dead horse" emoticon when you need it?
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Old 30-07-2010, 07:55   #24
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Hello!

"or is Al Gore and the like just lining there pockets while living the high life. A $4k electric bill for a month, yeah right...jeez"


Bob et all,
If this is your tack of choice.....perhaps you'd care to balance which side has more "dawgs in the fight" Al Gore ...or Big Energy, Big Auto, Big Fert, Big Agri, Big.......everything!
Q. E. D.
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Old 30-07-2010, 08:48   #25
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... perhaps you'd care to balance which side has more "dawgs in the fight"...
Q. E. D.
Q.E.D. ("that which was to be demonstrated") is customarily placed at the end of a definitive proof.

It's purpose is to alert the reader that the immediately previous statement, which was arrived at by an unbroken chain of logic, was the original statement that we were trying to prove.

You appear to have posited a rhetorical proposition, but offered no proof.
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Old 30-07-2010, 12:57   #26
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I do wish, however, that climate-change deniers would give up on poor Al Gore. Because you personality hate Al doesn't mean the work of hundreds, if not thousands, of legitimate scientists the world over is suddenly invalidated. It doesn't work that way.

Where's that "dead horse" emoticon when you need it?
I do wish the Rapture freaks would give up on their joyous doom mongering

From the "evidence" presented the problem is clearly population related.

But strangely none of the bunny hugging penguin fiddlers are advocating the obvious solution. which is also the cheapest...........Cull a couple of billion.

Think of the plankton that would be saved


But instead the "solution" is to pick my pocket
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Old 30-07-2010, 13:25   #27
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Speak for yerself David. Culling a few billion would be OK in my book. I just don't know how to do it, nor does anyone else, save Mother nature. What we are discussing is one of the ways that over population has manifested itself upon the environment.

Many understand (I surely do) that population is the core of the problem and natural forces WILL do the culling in good time. The jist of the discussion is how to assure that my personal and highly precious but is not part of said cull.

For my money being highly mobile, cruising or able to, is the most desirable attribute to a survival strategy. Anything that detracts from that ability is of concern to my. Thus, because I want plan to rely upon the ocean as my lifeboat, I am concerned with its health. QED (Is that OK Gord?)

As an firm atheist I don't get the "rapture" reference. I see a simple and logical pattern of over growth, followed by environmental degradation, followed by a sever die-off.
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Old 30-07-2010, 13:32   #28
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... QED (Is that OK Gord?) ...
Not as I understand it.
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Old 30-07-2010, 14:46   #29
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Speak for yerself David. Culling a few billion would be OK in my book. I just don't know how to do it, nor does anyone else, save Mother nature.
You give those with less weapons than "us" a number each. and start at no.1 and then carry on until Al Gore says the Penguins are ok.

The practicalities? Oh, I think the practicalities are very well within capabilities.

Quote:
The jist of the discussion is how to assure that my personal and highly precious but is not part of said cull.
Be amongst the "us" and not "them".


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As an firm atheist I don't get the "rapture" reference. I see a simple and logical pattern of over growth, followed by environmental degradation, followed by a sever die-off.
A Rapture Denier?

Just because Al Gore ain't living on a cloud don't mean you ain't got the old time religion disease. The singers change over the millenia, but the song is much the same...........The end of the world is nigh! But I can save you! - if you give me an offering. (Cash or cheque ).
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Old 30-07-2010, 14:47   #30
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Drat Gord, I'll never get it.
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