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Old 11-09-2010, 07:39   #151
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The World is a very big place.
Indeed. There are (roughly) 7 billion people. Wales (the country in the UK) has an area of about 21 billion sq metres so the entire human population of the world could fit into wales and get 3 sq metres each - that's a space approx. 6ft x 6ft.

Looked at that way, there's plenty of room for expansion, but the problem isn't really living room, it's resource consumption.
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Old 11-09-2010, 10:24   #152
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I am always disheartened by these threads. Pages and pages of debate about whether there is or is not global warming.

People going on ad nauseaum about this study or that study.

The conversation to be had is, "Just what do you specifically want me to do about it?"
The GW debate (and really any other earth-related issue) always remind me of that commercial of a bunch of people standing around a faucet that was left on in a public bathroom. Everyone is staring at the running faucet talking about how irresponsible it is to leave a faucet running, what a waste of water and resources it is, etc. Finally, some guy outside of that group walks into the bathroom, walks up and turns the faucet off. No talk, just corrective action.

I'm hoping that guy shows up for my kids' sake.
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Old 11-09-2010, 10:34   #153
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I found the concept of Mortality salience rather interesting in the context of this issue.

Death Denial | Use Celsias.com - reduce global °Celsius

Two Decades of Terror Management Theory: A Meta-Analysis of Mortality Salience Research ? Pers Soc Psychol Rev
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Old 11-09-2010, 15:33   #154
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Interesting radio broadcast here BBC - BBC Radio 4 Programmes - Uncertain Climate
Broadminded IMHO.
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Old 11-09-2010, 19:54   #155
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If things were so bad that the tipping point was going to be reached in 50 years exactly, if all of mankind were to make as great a change towards green technology as is possible today, ignoring the costs, the tipping point would still be reached in 50 years and 2 days. Our changeable contribution to the problem is a very small percentage of the source of the problem.
Fear mongering with a profit motive and nothing else if you actually stop to look behind the curtain.
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Old 11-09-2010, 20:03   #156
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I hear a lot of talk about the "profit motive." But I don't see it, the profit motive that is.

What are you guys talking about??????
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Old 11-09-2010, 20:06   #157
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The GW debate (and really any other earth-related issue) always remind me of that commercial of a bunch of people standing around a faucet that was left on in a public bathroom. Everyone is staring at the running faucet talking about how irresponsible it is to leave a faucet running, what a waste of water and resources it is, etc. Finally, some guy outside of that group walks into the bathroom, walks up and turns the faucet off. No talk, just corrective action.

I'm hoping that guy shows up for my kids' sake.
I agree - However this post also struck another chord.

I am in the bathroom washing my hands. A guy comes in and turns off the water. He says, "Water is a scarce resource and I think your hands are clean enough."

I am in the petri dish camp. We are the species with self-awareness. "I think, therefor I am."

We talk about saving the planet. We are really talking about saving a species.

I attempt to have a small footprint but I know life is finite. In the singular sense and in the group sense.

If the world cannot sustain our species we will die off. The Earth doesn't really care it will probably be spinning and whizzing around our galaxy for a few billion years to come.

It is ironic that 2,000 years of science has largely been designed to extend out lifespans. We are fighting natural selection. We will continue to "band-aid" things and eke out a few more years of longevity per person - arguably the last thing we should be doing.

so how long should we target the survival of the species? A million more years? 100 million? Next month?

Be good to your planet. Be good to your environment. We all know how. Just don't get stressed out. Go sailing more...
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Old 11-09-2010, 20:58   #158
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Research Carbon trading boards/exchanges.
Research the new law they are trying to pass in the states right now. The law that will allow them to come put in new windows on a house and charge the owner for them. Hoping that one doesn't get anywhere near passing.
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Old 12-09-2010, 03:01   #159
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I hear a lot of talk about the "profit motive." But I don't see it, the profit motive that is.

What are you guys talking about??????
There is a huge "green industry" that has sprung up - environmental consultants, environmental research, environmental law, environmental regulation, environmental detergents, environmental paints, etc, etc, etc,

Many of these products and services demand a premium price. Many thousands (millions??) of people now work in the "green economy". What if it all turns out to be wrong? What if mankind makes no difference to global warming?

How "green" do you think boating is? Is sailing more green than motor cruising? What's the carbon footprint of a new Beneteau or Catalina? Are YOU prepared to give up sailing for the good of the planet?
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Old 12-09-2010, 05:35   #160
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There is a huge "green industry" ...
... Many thousands (millions??) of people now work in the "green economy". What if it all turns out to be wrong? What if mankind makes no difference to global warming? ...
Then many thousands (millions??) of people will have found gainful employment, in an industry that may not have contributed very much (beyond employment) to mankind. Not unlike, perhaps, the fashion/beauty, pro’ sports, and countless other industries.
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Old 12-09-2010, 05:47   #161
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Research Carbon trading boards/exchanges.
Research the new law they are trying to pass in the states right now. The law that will allow them to come put in new windows on a house and charge the owner for them. Hoping that one doesn't get anywhere near passing.
That extraordinarily absurd claim screams out for supporting documentation.

Are you referring to the “Energy Efficient Window Tax Credit” available under the Federal Tax Credits for Consumer Energy Efficiency?
Federal Tax Credits for Energy Efficiency : ENERGY STAR
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Old 12-09-2010, 06:12   #162
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We can talk and talk and talk and talk. AT the end of the day, if consumers stopped consuming so much, then the big businesses would have to cut back production (yeah, yeah, more people out of work, but every silver lining has a cloud).

Me? I only buy things I need to consume right now (sushi and popcorn), or things I know will have space to fit on the boat. Oh, and seeds for our new organic garden!
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Old 12-09-2010, 06:20   #163
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Then many thousands (millions??) of people will have found gainful employment, in an industry that may not have contributed very much (beyond employment) to mankind.
Indeed. Think of all that human talent that could have been dedicated to more worthwhile jobs like research into 100ft sailboats made from a material that is light, strong and salt-resistant and only costs $1 per foot to buy.

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Not unlike, perhaps, the fashion/beauty, pro’ sports, and countless other industries.
You make my point more eloquently than I ever could.....
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Old 12-09-2010, 06:48   #164
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... You make my point more eloquently than I ever could.
As is my habit.
Notwithstand, I can't fathom what point, of yours, I may have made.
Could it be that the worst case scenario, could be mass employment?
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Old 12-09-2010, 07:07   #165
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As is my habit.
Notwithstand, I can't fathom what point, of yours, I may have made.
Could it be that the worst case scenario, could be mass employment?
Gord,

This all comes to another paradox, why are we so focused on "employment" and "productivity"? Two hundred years ago something like 75% of our population was employed growing food. Now it is under 5% and we have more calories. We have computers and robots and 50 hour work weeks and are extending the time to retirement.

No, we should produce less, consume less, do with less, except time for ourselves. Everyone over 50 should retire, right now, and that would cure our "unemployment problem." And we would have less money to piss away on needless nonsense which would be good for the environment too.

This is the biggest conspiracy ever, and we (well almost) all take an active part in it.
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