Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 12-08-2011, 13:43   #31
Registered User
 
capn_billl's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Houston,Tx
Boat: Maxum 37'
Posts: 1,587
Re: Man's Effect on Deep Ocean - Scary Study

Quote:
Originally Posted by avb3 View Post
I like the idea in principle, but the waste would be horrific.

Imagine sanitary issues. Imagine the amount of crushed fruit in a 53' trailer travelling from California to Alberta. Tomatoes would be paste by the time they arrived even 5 miles from origin.

It's just not a workable idea.

Now, reusable containers? How do you get them back to point of origin? Biodegradable makes sense though.
Fresh fruit is currently not shipped individually wrapped in a sealed plastic disposable container wrapped in cardboard, and shrink wrapped.

I think you are missing the point, yes there is a need for some of the packaging, (particularly shipping containers), but to individually wrap each piece of food multiple times, (often the packaging exceeds the portion size), to be used only one time, then enters the landfill, that is a waste we can reduce.

Take cereal for example, Now each 10 oz portion is wrapped in a sealed plastic, or metalized paper bag, then boxed in a colorful cardboard container with the picture of a cartoon charactor, or athlete on it.

A week later it is another entry in a landfill, (and by the way we used a gallon of oil to manufacture it)...A better way; a durable plastic container with the same advertizing printed on it.

A system that might work, (we have all seen the horror of bulk foods left open to the public for anyone to dredge unwashed hands through it), is to have a sealed hopper behind the counter; you hand your empty clean cereal box to the refilling machine that refills it with the crispy oats, purges it with nitrogen, and reseals it. NO container waste. Just moving the final packaging step from the factory to the consumer. The factory can package the cereal in a 9 cuft plastic cube.

Freight already has to return the empty truck, and the now recycled pallets, and the 50 gal drums for liquids. A bunch of large empty plastic boxes will add little overhead, and could be used to transport ingredients, like raw oats back to the factory, (much cleaner than an open rail car).

Sounds crazy??? At one time A US company marketed a root beer beverage exactly that way. Your first batch of A & W root beer included the cost of an A & W root beer gallon jug. Later batches, you brought the empty back to be cleaned, and refilled from a giant sealed container of fresh root beer at a substantial discount.

It wasn't their marketing method that sunk them, it was the general demise of the 50's era diner, their root beer lives on as a canned store brand.

It is not that there aren't other possible ways to safely, and cleanly transport food to market, (an open dump truck of freshly cooked lasagna on a cross country road trip isn't the only other option). It is there is little incentive, (yes the company makes the same profit selling you the colorful plastic disposable container as it does on the bite of food that came in it).

Right now the cost of using millions of gallons of oil to package food is hidden by not factoring in the cost of the waste disposal.

Most of us wash and reuse the plates we eat our food on. How much more effort will it take to wash the container we bought the food in. Even if this drastic an approach is not used,at least the store can provide the cereal with just the inner sealed plastic bag sized to fit the reusable box.
__________________

__________________
capn_billl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-09-2011, 21:55   #32
Registered User

Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 2
Re: Man's Effect on Deep Ocean - Scary Study

Quote:
Originally Posted by T1 Terry View Post
From the same report If it finished in 2010 the effect of the radio active material pouring into the ocean from the Japanese atomic reactor disaster hasn't even been looked at here. This one is an even more serious issue with no idea just how far this contamination will spread, word is that it is still happening now.

T1 Terry
Just to put your fears into perspective, the ocean contains 4.5 billion tons of Uranium naturally. Or to use Curies as a unit of measure...1.1 x 10^9 (billion) Curies of Uranium, 3.8 x 10 ^11 Curies Potassium 40, 2 x 10^7 Ci Tritium, 1.8 x 10^8 Ci Carbon 14, 3.6 x 10^10 Ci Rhubidium 87.
Fukishima is quite literally a drop in the ocean.
No need to worry. Our naturally quite radioactive planet won't notice.
__________________

__________________
nuclear1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2011, 08:25   #33
Registered User
 
capn_billl's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Houston,Tx
Boat: Maxum 37'
Posts: 1,587
Re: Man's Effect on Deep Ocean - Scary Study

Quote:
Originally Posted by nuclear1 View Post
Just to put your fears into perspective, the ocean contains 4.5 billion tons of Uranium naturally. Or to use Curies as a unit of measure...1.1 x 10^9 (billion) Curies of Uranium, 3.8 x 10 ^11 Curies Potassium 40, 2 x 10^7 Ci Tritium, 1.8 x 10^8 Ci Carbon 14, 3.6 x 10^10 Ci Rhubidium 87.
Fukishima is quite literally a drop in the ocean.
No need to worry. Our naturally quite radioactive planet won't notice.
It will still take decades for the local concentrations of these elements to disperse to normal background levels. And centuries to decay to stable elements.
__________________
capn_billl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2011, 09:02   #34
Registered User
 
NeptunesTrident's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Texoma
Boat: 62 Islander 24 + 88 Neptune 24
Posts: 170
Re: Man's Effect on Deep Ocean - Scary Study

The arrogance of the human race on parade. The very idea of humans being able to eradicate all life on earth is the apitome of arrogance.
Studies have also shown that Egypt, Iraq and Saudi were once lush with forrests and rivers. Lebanon was famous for the cedars. I guess it was those pesky humans that turned it into a desert with only 2 rivers left. Is that what you call "Urban Development"?
__________________
NeptunesTrident is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2011, 09:44   #35
Registered User
 
pillum's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: In Aberdeen, Scotland, but retiring to Spain.
Boat: Westerly W-35 (Latterly sold as Conway 36 Aft Cockpit)
Posts: 509
Images: 28
Re: Man's Effect on Deep Ocean - Scary Study

The world's population is around 7 millions. If you assume an average stand up space for each human of 1.6 meters high by .4 meters wide by .3 meters thick you could fit the whole human population of the world in a box about 1.1 km each side. Drop the box in the middle of and ocean and within a few months or so there would be virtually no trace of mankind... The earth would keep on spinning, the local fish would have a feeding frenzy, but nothing would change. The world would keep on it's present warming cycle, then cool again etc etc. We wouldn't be missed, so I agree with you NeptunesTrident, it's only our arrogance that makes us think we can change things anything more than to a miniscule degree.
__________________
Sweet are the uses of adversity.
pillum is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2011, 09:57   #36
Registered User
 
anjou's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Malvernshire, on the sunny side of the hill.
Boat: 50' steel canal and river cruiser
Posts: 1,905
Re: Man's Effect on Deep Ocean - Scary Study

I watched the DVD.Jerry Maquire the other night

in the opening scenes, it said the population was 6 billion. Jeez, when was that film made? Not so very long ago. The worlds population has more than doubled in my short lifetime.

As with all problems, there is no one contributing factor, and no one answer.
But I believe population control is vital, but its the most contentious issue.
The less educated people are, the more they breed, and at the moment, its the ignorant third world which are breeding at an alarming rate, and of course, the one single group who want more consumer products.
__________________
www.amy-artimis.blogspot.com
anjou is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2011, 12:33   #37
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: between the devil and the deep blue sea
Boat: a sailing boat
Posts: 17,314
Re: Man's Effect on Deep Ocean - Scary Study

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue Stocking View Post
We are committing our grandchildren's suicide.
genocide
__________________
barnakiel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2011, 12:37   #38
Registered User
 
Jesse's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Oro Bay Puget Sound
Boat: Irwin sloop
Posts: 374
Re: Man's Effect on Deep Ocean - Scary Study

I figure if the eruption of undersea volcano's is considered beneficial to ocean health there is absolutely nothing I can do to help or harm them. I tend to ignore the "doomsday criers" untill they start reaching for my wallet.
__________________
Jesse is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2011, 12:44   #39
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: between the devil and the deep blue sea
Boat: a sailing boat
Posts: 17,314
Re: Man's Effect on Deep Ocean - Scary Study

Quote:
Originally Posted by anjou View Post

(...) (third) world which are breeding at an alarming rate, and of course, the one single group who want more consumer products.
Looks like the end of the world as we know it.

The future is going to be like nothing we can imagine from studying the past.

The good news is that if the end turns out global and dramatic enough, then we will be gone soon and nature will rebound.

b.
__________________
barnakiel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2011, 14:26   #40
Moderator Emeritus
 
GordMay's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Thunder Bay, Ontario - 48-29N x 89-20W
Boat: (Cruiser Living On Dirt)
Posts: 31,579
Images: 240
Re: Man's Effect on Deep Ocean - Scary Study

Quote:
Originally Posted by pillum View Post
... it's only our arrogance that makes us think we can change things anything more than to a miniscule degree.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NeptunesTrident View Post
... The very idea of humans being able to eradicate all life on earth is the apitome epitome of arrogance ...
The truly arrogant assumes his views and opinions are “The Truth”; without benefit of any offer of proof.

Forests often catch on fire “naturally”, and eventually burn out. Does that suggest that man can’t start, and extinguish forests fires?
__________________
Gord May
"If you didn't have the time or money to do it right in the first place, when will you get the time/$ to fix it?"



GordMay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2011, 14:44   #41
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Sunshine Coast, Australia
Boat: Triton 24
Posts: 67
Re: Man's Effect on Deep Ocean - Scary Study

Quote:
Originally Posted by pillum View Post
The world's population is around 7 millions. If you assume an average stand up space for each human of 1.6 meters high by .4 meters wide by .3 meters thick you could fit the whole human population of the world in a box about 1.1 km each side.
Oops, missing a few zeros there big guy.

BTW the analogy is a very poor one as well as can be plainly seen humans individually and collectively have a vastly greater impact on the Earth's biota than 'packed together and dropped in the ocean' may indicate (many regions are in fact hugely degraded/modified by human activity).
__________________
genomic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2011, 15:35   #42
Don't ask if you can't handle it
 
sailorboy1's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: On the boat somewhere
Boat: Hunter 410
Posts: 12,311
Re: Man's Effect on Deep Ocean - Scary Study

I'm only 51, but have been reading and watching shows on how we are going to die within the next couple mof years for all of those years. The problems have never been as great as the degree of the state of fear has made them out to be or we wouldn't be talking about them currently.

I could make many non-PC suggestions for solving the problem.
__________________
jobless, houseless, clueless, living on a boat and cruising around somewhere
sailorboy1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2011, 15:57   #43
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Sunshine Coast, Australia
Boat: Triton 24
Posts: 67
Re: Man's Effect on Deep Ocean - Scary Study

Yes, I'm against hyperbole or journalistic sensationalism, but if you read the actual scientific papers behind the media-spun headlines, you'll find two things 1) The language used in the papers is usually very careful and not the over the top doom and gloom as reported, however 2) the weight of evidence clearly shows that human activity has nevertheless wrought significant environmental impact.

The lesson pehaps is we should ignore the hype but accept and understand the ecological reality, which isn't that rosy in may cases.
__________________
genomic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2011, 17:58   #44
Registered User
 
NeptunesTrident's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Texoma
Boat: 62 Islander 24 + 88 Neptune 24
Posts: 170
Talking Re: Man's Effect on Deep Ocean - Scary Study

Quote:
Originally Posted by genomic View Post
Yes, I'm against hyperbole or journalistic sensationalism, but if you read the actual scientific papers behind the media-spun headlines, you'll find two things 1) The language used in the papers is usually very careful and not the over the top doom and gloom as reported, however 2) the weight of evidence clearly shows that human activity has nevertheless wrought significant environmental impact.

The lesson pehaps is we should ignore the hype but accept and understand the ecological reality, which isn't that rosy in may cases.
Ahhh, no. It dont. The IPCC report has had more than half the scientists request their names be removed. If, by man made warming, you mean setting up weather station sensors over BBQ,s. Then you have a valid point. I remember the 70,s when they cried ice age. In the 30's and 40's the NYT's and others were crying about global warming.

Truth is the earth has been warming sence the last ice age. And for my money, I prefer warm weather. You may wish for the return of the mastadon, but not I.
__________________
NeptunesTrident is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2011, 18:23   #45
Registered User
 
NeptunesTrident's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Texoma
Boat: 62 Islander 24 + 88 Neptune 24
Posts: 170
Re: Man's Effect on Deep Ocean - Scary Study

Quote:
Originally Posted by GordMay View Post
The truly arrogant assumes his views and opinions are “The Truth”; without benefit of any offer of proof.

Forests often catch on fire “naturally”, and eventually burn out. Does that suggest that man can’t start, and extinguish forests fires?
So your position is that seein as how man can start a fire, and put it out, global warming is real? I have to say, that is not very convincing. I do believe I will stick with the data collected with the Vostok ice cores. They tend to show some 100,000 years of climate data. The data is on line.
__________________

__________________
NeptunesTrident is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off




Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 17:29.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.