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Old 10-08-2011, 09:46   #16
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Re: Man's Effect on Deep Ocean - Scary Study

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are people today any different than thousands of years before?
Archaeologists treasure the dumps of the past.
Different? Not in an evolutionary sense but certainly in a behavioral sense. In the past nothing that was still usable was wasted and using resources was very labour intensive which tended to protect the resource. In addition the numbers of people on the earth was small compared to amount of space.

The Romans through slave labour cut the forests to plant grapes and turned the Mediterranean into an arid land and there will be other examples undoubtedly of large changes wrought by human actions but for the most part the numbers of people and the challenges of consumption made humankind a less invasive species.

We have learned, and continue to learn, to use resources at a rate that requires us to apply reason to our use of them. We do better with the ones above ground because it is easier to see them disappear and we are better at confronting the problem of land based garbage because we are simply running out of a place for it and have to confront it. Sadly the mechanisms we have for confronting abstract problems is often hampered by the more primitive mechanisms of survival even when they work counter to the reason for their original evolution.
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Old 10-08-2011, 10:02   #17
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Re: Man's Effect on Deep Ocean - Scary Study

Litter is one thing, if you've seen a hard rainstorm in Mexico, Trinidad, the DR etc... the streets look like rivers filled with plastic. Rivers entering the ocean exude pesticides from farming as well as this plastic. Cities throughout the US, and more so, the third world, dump millions of gallons of raw sewage in the ocean. Their permits in the US allow them to do so. How long can mother ocean continue?
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Old 10-08-2011, 15:49   #18
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Re: Man's Effect on Deep Ocean - Scary Study

Any more I don't know what to say about all this.

It seems that it is difficlut for me to express my true feelings here without running afoul of the rules or offending.

I find our current situation unenviable and unavoidable. I dislike it and find it of our own making, however I have no hint of a solution. It simply is what we are, of which I am not fond.

Elsewhere others, in an attempt to gain perspective, have likened it to witnessing one of the past great die off's.

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Old 10-08-2011, 16:18   #19
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Re: Man's Effect on Deep Ocean - Scary Study

I would say that Hummingway's post #16 gives good perspective on the subject. And so then the question is not how long the planet can survive with human pollution/exploitation, but how long before human pollution/exploitation makes human extinct. The planet will proceed on quite nicely with the next organism rising to domination.
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Old 10-08-2011, 20:28   #20
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Re: Man's Effect on Deep Ocean - Scary Study

Human beings...as we know them today are just a blip on the face of the earth. I, for one, belive that there have been other civilizations here over Billions of years......Those civilizations came and went.....all traces of them have been subducted or eroded.

A great majority of humans don't care....selfishness

But at least they pick up their dog crap....which I find humorous to watch.
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Old 10-08-2011, 20:45   #21
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Re: Man's Effect on Deep Ocean - Scary Study

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.................The planet will proceed on quite nicely with the next organism rising to domination.
Let us hope.

However, you should know that there are serious scientist who believe that we can create a Venus like atmosphere rendering the planet dead, void of all life, uninhabitable.

Obviously we don't know that for a fact, as it has not yet occurred. Yet, the possibility of it occurring is not non-zero. Sobering.

Clathrate gun hypothesis - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Old 11-08-2011, 07:17   #22
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Re: Man's Effect on Deep Ocean - Scary Study

Maybe in the old school of biology, but these days all manner of life has been found in the most hostile places from inside rocks to deep sea sulfur vents to the Antartic and other space. So I serious doubt anything humans can do - even blowing up the place with hydrogen bombs - will wipe out all life.
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Old 11-08-2011, 13:16   #23
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Re: Man's Effect on Deep Ocean - Scary Study

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Maybe in the old school of biology, but these days all manner of life has been found in the most hostile places from inside rocks to deep sea sulfur vents to the Antartic and other space. So I serious doubt anything humans can do - even blowing up the place with hydrogen bombs - will wipe out all life.
I've always heard cockroaches will inherit the earth after we're gone.

We can start by educating our children, and showing by example to always pick up after ourselves, and any other trash left by others.

I always come out of natural areas with more trash than I brought in. Trash is a mostly industrial invention. In a preindustrial society there is no such thing as hamburger wrappers, and soda cans. Even a century ago barrels used to ship goods were broken down, and recycled.

We could greatly reduce trash production by shipping food in bulk and packaging in reusable container locally.
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Old 11-08-2011, 13:23   #24
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Re: Man's Effect on Deep Ocean - Scary Study

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We could greatly reduce trash production by shipping food in bulk and packaging in reusable container locally.
I like the idea in principle, but the waste would be horrific.

Imagine sanitary issues. Imagine the amount of crushed fruit in a 53' trailer travelling from California to Alberta. Tomatoes would be paste by the time they arrived even 5 miles from origin.

It's just not a workable idea.

Now, reusable containers? How do you get them back to point of origin? Biodegradable makes sense though.
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Old 11-08-2011, 15:25   #25
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Re: Man's Effect on Deep Ocean - Scary Study

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Maybe in the old school of biology, but these days all manner of life has been found in the most hostile places from inside rocks to deep sea sulfur vents to the Antartic and other space. So I serious doubt anything humans can do - even blowing up the place with hydrogen bombs - will wipe out all life.
Yes, you are quite right. The stuff deep down in the rocks is likely to survive.

However I doubt there would be anything above ground to show the difference.

Of course this is an unlikely occurrence, kinda like playing Russian Roulette with a 144 shot revolver, not that I would recommend it.
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Old 11-08-2011, 21:17   #26
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I agree that what we do to this planet and it's other inhabitants will probably overcome what we can dish out...but do we have the right to be so ignorant and disrespectful to those other species that we share the space with and just keep forcing them to deal with our arrogant discord? Especially if we believe we should be considered the "intelligent" life form on this rock...and yet we act like a bunch of foolish idiots.
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Old 11-08-2011, 22:26   #27
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Re: Man's Effect on Deep Ocean - Scary Study

The vast majority of the crushing environmental problems have occurred since WW2. The chemical and plastics industry have made containers and pesticides cheap and readily available. These, along with nuclear waste, are the vast majority of pollution problem. If we could just stop producing those things, [and too many children,] we would have a chance to rebuild Gaia's infrastructure. Seems simple and straightforward enough .... Which national legislator will be the one to introduce such bills, and what will his/her life expectancy be afterward?
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Old 12-08-2011, 05:57   #28
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Re: Man's Effect on Deep Ocean - Scary Study

I think that as sailors we generally tend to be more aware of natural issues than the average land lubber. I find many, even though the think they are trying to be 'Earth friendly' simply have such a distant connection with the outdoors that they don't have a clue.

I read last year a factoid that humans spend something like 95% of our time indoors.

Sailors, by nature, are more nature friendly, or at least nature aware. Even if we do use a lot of plastics and other potentially harmful stuff. At least we are aware of our energy budgets.

Link to a related article.

http://www.scientificamerican.com/ar...ll-of-the-wild
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Old 12-08-2011, 06:31   #29
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Re: Man's Effect on Deep Ocean - Scary Study

Finally, a relevant post - thanks hpeer. I would agree that the long term cruiser is very environmentally aware as compared to most if not all landlubbers.
- - We swim off out boats and suck in the sea water to make fresh water so clean oceans are important and "special" to us. We dispose of excess packaging mainly because we don't have room to store all that useless stuff. We eat more natural foods without chemicals and other manufacturing enhancements because we do the old fashioned thing called cooking and baking from scratch. Also we purchase local foodstuffs that the locals grow without the use of chemicals and hormones mainly because the locals cannot afford such things. The "roads" we travel don't need asphalt or concrete. And finally, we can get along quite nicely without the need of thousands of bureaucrats telling us how we should live.
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Old 12-08-2011, 06:34   #30
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Re: Man's Effect on Deep Ocean - Scary Study

And (biggie many forget) liveaboards don't use near the power to heat our homes!!

Living in a temperate climate is energy intensive.
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