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Old 18-03-2016, 19:30   #1
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Macgregor 25 vs Catalina 22

I'm new at sailing and have been looking to by a restoration project sailboat. I Intend to use the boat in the caribean Cancun área. I have come across 2 different boats that both need restoracion and parts.

Pictures #1 1983 25ft Macgregor. The original ad says: "It needs some bottom paint and has a dented in hull but it does sail. One set of sails that are in fair condition."
I contacted the owner and he tells me that it was in the water last year for about a week with no problems. It doesn't have and outboard and the interior needs to be restored. Its being sold for 700 with the trailer. Rigging is said to be complete.

Picture #2 1974 22 ft Catalina the original ad reads: "Here is a 1976 Catalina 22 swing keel sailboat with trailer. This boat is in need of some fixing or a great parts boat. The bow deck has delamination. The boat was being sailed with the delamination so you could sail it but it will need to be fixed. All the rigging is there. Main and Jib sail are the original sails. main is ok shape but he jib does have some sail tape on it. The boat does come with a small outboard as well. Asking $1000 obo."

So I hope you guys can help with your opinions and suggestions. of course tips on what I should expect.
In the case of any boat I buy a intend to paint and repair whatever fiberglass needed. Thanks
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Old 18-03-2016, 19:33   #2
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pirate Re: Macgregor 25 vs Catalina 22

Can't water ski with a Catalina..
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Old 18-03-2016, 20:05   #3
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Re: Macgregor 25 vs Catalina 22

cant behind a Macgregor 25 either. your thinkin a 26x or m
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Old 18-03-2016, 21:02   #4
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Re: Macgregor 25 vs Catalina 22

My advice would be to save up just a little more money and buy a boat in a bit better condition. Both of your prospects will eventually cost you more cash and a hell of a lot more angst. If their owners are willing to admit to these flaws, imagine what other ones lurk in those un-maintained vessels.

There are so many similar trailer sailors around in usable condition that it is senseless to buy one so far down on its life curve.
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Old 18-03-2016, 22:07   #5
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Re: Macgregor 25 vs Catalina 22

Welcome to CF, Motega.

Can you post links to the boats? You forgot to post the pics and with the links, we can see what we're talking about

In general:
There are exceptions to every rule, but usually the really cheap and free boats will be the most expensive ones to own.

Like Jim said, restoring them costs a LOT more then buying one in decent shape - and I'm not even mentioning the time. If you can't do all the work yourself, it gets even worse.
And after all that trouble, you'll end up with a boat that has cost you triple or more what it's worth ...

If you don't have the budget to buy a boat in decent shape, you definitely don't have the budget for the projects you're currently looking at.

"It needs some bottom paint and has a dented in hull but it does sail. and the interior needs to be restored"
By the time this boat is finished, it'll have cost you at least double or more likely triple what a decent one will cost you to buy. Also kinda wondering about a dent in a plastic hull ..?
"Rigging is said to be complete" ... and in need of replacement, no doubt

"This boat is in need of some fixing or a great parts boat"
You can stop reading right there - a parts boat means it's ready to be scrapped. The delamination confirms that. And the original 1976 sails 'with some tape on it'?
"All the rigging is there" That boat has 40 yr old sails 'repaired' with tape. Wanna bet that rigging is from 1974 as well?
Not sure how the owner is asking $1000 for it; not even worth $100 ... Probably beyond repair.

Both these boats sound like they're EOL, sadly, and aren't worth investing any time or money in.
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Old 19-03-2016, 02:11   #6
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Re: Macgregor 25 vs Catalina 22

Owners of both boats were probably quoted the cost of $600-800 or more to junk them (less if the trailer is drivable) so they're hoping to find a chum to pick up that tab.
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Old 19-03-2016, 07:04   #7
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Re: Macgregor 25 vs Catalina 22

Greetings and welcome aboard the CF, Motega, and procoup.
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Old 19-03-2016, 07:23   #8
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Re: Macgregor 25 vs Catalina 22

Those don't sound like boats you buy. They're boats you get for free, and then regret it. I'd hate to see anyone (except my brother-in-law, former boss, or ex-girlfriend) get stuck with one of them.

If my funds were limited, I'd seek out a boat in sound condition that I could afford. Sunfish is fine with me. Seriously.

Even a 22 to 25 boat in good condition is going to have plenty of maintenance to perform, and probably at least a couple of unpleasant $urprises.
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Old 19-03-2016, 13:50   #9
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Re: Macgregor 25 vs Catalina 22

I think the OP has done his homework and picked out two great boats! Both are Hall of Famers with way over 20,000 units sold between the two models. In comparison, there were only 347 Cal 34's built.

DO NOT listen to the naysayers that aren't answering your question anyway! These are little boats and you are not going to lose a fortune restoring either one. I love the Catalina 22 I just obtained (traded a boat I got essentially for free) even though it needs a little work.

This is a great opportunity to learn how to do basic sailboat maintenance and repairs on a small scale. Parts are readily available and reasonable. For example, the boat I traded needed new portlights which would have cost about $450 per side for the most basic aftermarket ones but a new C22 portlight from Catalina Direct is $89. Used sails are common. Information is abundant. The design is extremely well thought out with very few gotchas and these are well described in the Catalina forums.

Get the C22, especially if the owner is willing to take you for a sea trial (meaning it is usable in its present condition.) You won't regret it and the outboard is probably worth at least $350 if it runs. There is a big difference between buying a 34 to 40 footer in poor condition and a pocket cruiser in poor condition.

BTW, I manage to maintain my six boats (one or two are always project boats) while I work on other people's boats 20 or 30 hours a week and I feel like I have plenty of spare time. Yesterday was a great day, all of my outboard motors started after a long winter nap (Yamaha 150 2S, Yamaha 70 2S, Yamaha 9.9 4S, Yamaha 9.92S, Yamaha 8 2S, Tohatsu 5 4S, Honda 5.) That is a minor miracle in the boat maintenance world.
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Old 19-03-2016, 14:16   #10
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Re: Macgregor 25 vs Catalina 22

Quote:
Originally Posted by Azul View Post
This is a great opportunity to learn how to do basic sailboat maintenance and repairs on a small scale.
They are great little boats ... but on a small scale?
Did you read the OP?

If these were small scale projects, we wouldn't all be saying no.
Small EOL boat does not equal small scale project - there's more to it then just boat size.

In fact, all of us are trying to convince the OP for going for a small scale project.
These boats, however, are not small scale projects.
These are small EOL boats.
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Old 19-03-2016, 14:21   #11
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Re: Macgregor 25 vs Catalina 22

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lizzy Belle View Post
They are great little boats ... but on a small scale?
Did you read the OP?

If these were small scale projects, we wouldn't all be saying no.
Small EOL boat does not equal small scale project - there's more to it then just boat size (I just to own a 22' boat).

In fact, all of us are trying to convince the OP for going for a small scale project.
These boats, however, are not small scale projects.
These are small EOL boats.
"If you don't have the budget to buy a boat in decent shape, you definitely don't have the budget for the projects you're currently looking at." Did YOU read the OP? He never said anything about being restricted to a budget and he appears to be looking for a project that he can do his OWN work on.

Further, while people lose money on boats all the time primarily by letting them die a slow and painful death through neglect, I have not lost money on any of the dozens that I have bought and sold over the last eight years since I stopped buying new ones.

While I have been insulted numerous times on this forum in a similar manner (the usual is "you must not be able to read" ha despite a full academic scholarship and doctoral degree) I am at a loss as to how a "delamination in the bow area" probably due to an area of water infiltration into the deck core is a monumental fatal flaw, but rather something that can be easily repaired in a few short afternoons.

While I do this for a living as a second career now, even a complete refit of a C22 is a piece of cake, well within the means of anyone that can read or watch Youtube videos.
Geez, such drivel and drama!!!
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Old 19-03-2016, 14:29   #12
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Re: Macgregor 25 vs Catalina 22

Quote:
Originally Posted by Azul View Post
"If you don't have the budget
The keyword being if ... I haven't a clue what his budget is.

It was more to point out that this is not a low budget / easy start option - for the OP to decide it that's a problem or not.
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Old 19-03-2016, 14:38   #13
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Re: Macgregor 25 vs Catalina 22

+1 for skipping those two boats. If you really like working on boats, you might offer a 12 pack of the owner's favorite beer. If you pay any more than that you will regret it.
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Old 19-03-2016, 14:49   #14
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Re: Macgregor 25 vs Catalina 22

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Originally Posted by Lizzy Belle View Post
The keyword being if ... I haven't a clue what his budget is.

It was more to point out that this is not a low budget / easy start option - for the OP to decide it that's a problem or not.
This is exactly the perfect boat to start on. I could fix that boat to completely functional if not cosmetically perfect for less than $100 in materials and 6 hours of my time, maybe double that if the ENTIRE front deck is mush.

Perhaps everyone should start with a Sunfish that has a small scratch on the hull? Or a sailing dinghy?

Good luck finding a free C22 with all the essential parts or even a M25 no matter the condition, they are too popular- and for good reasons.

This person doesn't want to buy a $4500 C22 and go sailing, he wants to buy a $1000 C22 and go sailing, and fix it up as he goes along to his satisfaction with his own elbow grease, that's what he stated in his original post. There is a guy on the Catalina forums that has put $30,000 into his C22 making it just the way he wanted. I don't think he had any regrets, but that is a bit extreme!
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Old 19-03-2016, 14:56   #15
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Re: Macgregor 25 vs Catalina 22

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lizzy Belle View Post
The keyword being if ... I haven't a clue what his budget is.

It was more to point out that this is not a low budget / easy start option - for the OP to decide it that's a problem or not.
You made the assumption he is on a budget. Another made the assumption he is poor and needs to save more money. Lots of assumptions here with very little actual help for the OP with FACTS or any examples of actual experience with restoring these two boats.

OP, if you get the C22 you can PM me and I will give you my phone number and you can call me whenever you want for free assistance in buying or fixing your boat. You have good taste in little boats.
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