Living in Civilization vs in the Wilderness / Deserted Island ?

[Therapy]

Originally Posted by wolfenzee

Those who have been able to develop the mindset that frees them of the constrictions of modern society have often given up the part that would allow them to make money to get the boat...while those that can afford the boat would rather retain the trappings of our culture. Interesting paradox

Yes it is.

[Pelagic]

Originally Posted by wolfenzee

Those who have been able to develop the mindset that frees them of the constrictions of modern society have often given up the part that would allow them to make money to get the boat...while those that can afford the boat would rather retain the trappings of our culture. Interesting paradox

Most cruising sailors I know are pretty self assured and dynamic.

I think they have to be... to adjust to the Sea and their travels.

The ones that have gained the resources to manage a personal balance between outfitting a yacht as a private home and taking it to remote "uncivilized" places are not a “paradox”… they have found an answer that works for them, without being pigeon holed.

[Blue Stocking]

If I was of the mental state, and philosophical outlook to leave civilization behind, I probably wouldn't be discussing it with 33000 strangers in cyberspace, huh.
Jus sayin'

[David_Old_Jersey]

Originally Posted by Blue Stocking

If I was of the mental state, and philosophical outlook to leave civilization behind, I probably wouldn't be discussing it with 33000 strangers in cyberspace, huh.
Jus sayin'

they are not strangers.

Just freinds you have never met.

and, being the internet, hope never to

[Todomi]

I'd pick a wilderness -- since "civilization" is definitely not civilized. Ayn Rand put it this way: "Civilization is the process of setting Man free from men." Not much of that going on these days, is there? So, if I could find a place where some self-appointed "authority" wasn't trying to restrict, coerce, tax, prohibit, or patronize me, etc., etc., then I'd be happy, however crowded it was with civilization. In fact, that would be the best "wilderness" of all.

[Therapy]

Originally Posted by Todomi

if I could find a place where some self-appointed "authority" wasn't trying to restrict, coerce, tax, prohibit, or patronize me, etc., etc.,
.

That happens as soon as there are two or more within sight of each other.

Nature of the beast.

[osirissail]

Originally Posted by Therapy

That happens as soon as there are two or more within sight of each other.
Nature of the beast.

Very, very true - 1 person is an individual; 2 people are a team; 3 people are a political committee and one has to be the the chairman. From there it is all downhill.

[beau]

i think it is what you get used to. I grew up in northern Australia and we did a lot of camping ,fishing etc . i feel very comfortable in the Australian bush even though we have the most deadliest snakes spiders crocodiles etc. You get to understand what to touch and what not to touch, I feel the same about diving on the great barrier reef.
Years ago we moved to California, Los Angeles frightened the hell out of me, so I spent time in the mountains "Sierra Nevada's" when ever i could however I was not comfortable, what with bears, racoons etc I was always uncomfortabler.

I believe a cruising life is perfect, because you can have both,
the shopping when you stay briefly at a marina, or move when it all gets too much, an anchor off some deserted beach. Light a roaring fire on the beach catch some mud crabs and drink your homemade vodka. I have a lady who enjoys the same life so things are pretty good.

I do think it is important to fit a few luxuries on the boat, plenty of power though solar or generator and fresh water (desalinator) if you want to have that women on board who will stay.

[zopi]

I want to live where the only leech is on my sails...no politicians lawyers bureauRatz, school system administrators and their ilk.

Love that word...ilk.

[wolfenzee]

This thread has made me feel quite smug towards the "financially successful" who have all the trappings of modern day life that I could never afford (or want)...but oops...the shift in the economy is making it harder and harder if not impossible to pay off the credit that is owed. No I don't have much, but what I have is nice and I OWN it, I am not paying a bank for the privilege of being able to say I own more than I do and/or can really afford.

[SurferShane]

Originally Posted by wolfenzee

This thread has made me feel quite smug towards the "financially successful" who have all the trappings of modern day life that I could never afford (or want)...but oops....

I don’t think it is just this thread; more like the yachting in general? It is like where I live the cruising yacht club is dominated by those with deep pockets and sailing has more to do with showing off that expensive toy than enjoying the spirit of the sea. The club itself is primarily a drinking hole for the privileged.

In contrast, it made me so happy a few days ago when this well-aged fellow went for a mile round trip row over to my boat to compliment me on its traditional design. He had made his not dissimilar steel boat himself and obviously was not new to the waterway. Even the fact he was rowing was amazing. I thought I was one of the few who could not be bothered with the hassles of an outboard engine. Yet many these days refuse physical exertion while this gentleman was happy to get his daily exercise.

It is just a real pity that these traditions are being strangled out by today’s plastic ways?

[barnakiel]

Originally Posted by wolfenzee

This thread has made me feel quite smug towards the "financially successful" who have all the trappings of modern day life that I could never afford (or want)...but oops...the shift in the economy is making it harder and harder if not impossible to pay off the credit that is owed. No I don't have much, but what I have is nice and I OWN it, I am not paying a bank for the privilege of being able to say I own more than I do and/or can really afford.

Yes. But even when you take out the quotation marks they will be better off. The rich stay rich and the poor get poorer. We are lucky to be living in time and place where even the poor can afford sailing.

b.

[barnakiel]

Originally Posted by SurferShane

It is just a real pity that these traditions are being strangled out by today’s plastic ways?

It is not.

I think people on boats fall into two extremes (and everywhere in between).

One kind will want to try out everything (sextant and GPS, outboard and rowing, classic and racing). You can call them Peter Pans.

The other kind will try to impress their own kind. You can call them Oyster Pans.

Then there are the lazy bums. You can call them lazy bums.

Some Peter Pans will find out rowing, fall in love and stick with it. Some Oyster Pans will talk (over a glass of whiskey) about the virtues of a rowing dinghy. The lazy bum will just jump into their zodiac pull on the cord and motor off.

The world is what you make it.

b.

[SurferShane]

Originally Posted by barnakiel

It is not.

I think people on boats fall into two extremes (and everywhere in between). One kind will want to try out everything (sextant and GPS, outboard and rowing, classic and racing). You can call them Peter Pans.
The other kind will try to impress their own kind. You can call them Oyster Pans. Then there are the lazy bums. You can call them lazy bums.

Some Peter Pans will find out rowing, fall in love and stick with it. Some Oyster Pans will talk (over a glass of whiskey) about the virtues of a rowing dinghy. The lazy bum will just jump into their zodiac pull on the cord and motor off. The world is what you make it.

b.

Nice little characterisation.

As far as the Peter Pans are concerned I agree that they just “fall in love” with something and it becomes second nature. For example, my grandfather got a new pushbike for his 80th birthday and never owned a car. Rain, hail or shine he rode absolutely everywhere. Such behaviour just becomes habit and the effort is akin to some sort of cherished form of “sacred pain”. In the same way, some just row?

I suppose a bit of the grandfather definitely rubbed off on me. In respect, I should be doing a lot more rowing.

[SurferShane]

Originally Posted by barnakiel

Yes. But even when you take out the quotation marks they will be better off. The rich stay rich and the poor get poorer. We are lucky to be living in time and place where even the poor can afford sailing.

b.

Around where I live I am not so sure about the poor being able to enjoy sailing bit. There just aren’t many if not any small boats at the marinas on my harbour. In stark contrast, there is an old boat harbour and an anchorage that are almost graveyards for poor people’s boats. In between there are a couple of battlers who live on some charming old powerboats at a private wharf. The picture is unfortunately black and white between what happens to the poor compared to the spoils of the well to do.

Then yesterday I was telling a friend that I had anchored my boat off a little beach that was once a fishing camp during the depression. Predictably the first thing that cam out of her mouth is “are you allowed to do that”. I just gave my standard answer, “No, you are not allowed to do anything in N*******e except work long hard hours for repressive bosses whilst your children get addicted to ice”.

Again, I am not criticising the person who asked this question. It is just the way the nature of this place conditions us to think. Yet if you go back half a century people had a totally different attitude as is evident in the fact the same beach was a camp for the destitute.