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Old 23-06-2013, 21:55   #46
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Re: Legal Stuff

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Got to agree with ElGatoGordo....
Man that doesn't happen often
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Old 23-06-2013, 22:54   #47
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Re: Legal Stuff

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Yes but in that simple statement lies the seeds of despotism and totalitarianism. It must always be counter balanced by other rights that the individual can access to control abuse or excessive use of such powers

But ultimately in a free and open society we have to accept that public safety cannot be guaranteed nor attempted if in doing so , such freedom is restricted. Better to loose some innocents then condemn a whole nation to investigation

Dave

Those who study logic would call that the fallacy of the slippery slope. We have had this Constitution since 1783 (? close to that) and have not had this happen. That's because of our system of checks and balances. It is the Supreme Court who has set the limiting boundaries that have prevented such a prediction for over 2 centuries. .

Freedoms ARE restricted in a governed society. Eliminate that and you have anarchy, which is not freedom at all. Anarchy is completely unprotected rights and only the ones you can force others to accept on your behalf.

Sorry, but IMO you have put forth a fallacious argument. Sometimes we go to extremes. President Lincoln used some Draconian measures, but they were lifted when the War was over, and he saved the country.
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Old 24-06-2013, 01:45   #48
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Re: Legal Stuff

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they are accessing your thoughts too :P
and people used to laugh at me..........



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Old 24-06-2013, 04:43   #49
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Re: Legal Stuff

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...................... with the exception that you can still expect protection and rescue from the Coast Guard.
and all it cost us is our personal freedoms?
what a bargain.
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Old 24-06-2013, 04:59   #50
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Re: Legal Stuff

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and people used to laugh at me..........



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"used to"
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Old 24-06-2013, 08:53   #51
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Re: Legal Stuff

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and all it cost us is our personal freedoms?
what a bargain.
You and your crew are free to drown.

I got no problem with that
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Old 24-06-2013, 08:57   #52
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Re: Legal Stuff

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You and your crew are free to drown.

I got no problem with that
you believe the coast guard could not be replaced, but it can be.
sure some would die. people are allowed to do dumb things and get killed.
but if there was no coast guard i believe there would be two options.
private enterprise. towboatusa comes to mind.
people helping people. someone sinking, sends out a distress call, everyone knows there is no coast guard, people go to help.

a third option would be people being more prepared. proper ocean going dinghy, like the ones they have on commercial ships.
the biggest pain i see is fake calls. i heard a few in long island sound.
they make one short call then stop calling.
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Old 24-06-2013, 09:09   #53
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Re: Legal Stuff

The UK has no Gubberment equivalent of the USCG for SAR purposes - RNLI entirely voluntary (folks coming together for the common good might be too much of a Socialist approach for some!). The RAF rescue Helicopters have recently been (are being?) privatised.

I have no idea what the comparable stats (rescues / deaths etc) are vs the USA but I suspect not wildly different - and possibly even better!
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Old 24-06-2013, 09:24   #54
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Re: Legal Stuff

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Originally Posted by scoobert View Post
you believe the coast guard could not be replaced, but it can be.
sure some would die. people are allowed to do dumb things and get killed.
but if there was no coast guard i believe there would be two options.
private enterprise. towboatusa comes to mind.
people helping people. someone sinking, sends out a distress call, everyone knows there is no coast guard, people go to help.

a third option would be people being more prepared. proper ocean going dinghy, like the ones they have on commercial ships.
the biggest pain i see is fake calls. i heard a few in long island sound.
they make one short call then stop calling.

I think if we didn't have some basic requirements for operating our bots, Towboat US might well find another way to make money.

I can't believe what I'm seeing here. Do these same people chafe because there are rules about owning and operating cars? Because there are a whole lot more regarding driving, and no one seems to think freedom is going to topple because of that.
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Old 24-06-2013, 09:35   #55
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Re: Legal Stuff

My wife and I have completed about 42 years of livingaboard and actively cruising mostly in US waters. We have not yet been boarded by the Coast Guard, but if that day comes, we will be in compliance, grateful for their service and not inconvenienced by their tasks. I had the opportunity to pass behind this vessel not too long ago near Norfolk.....




If you can read the name; then, you likely understand that there are reasons to inspect boats beyond just checking safety gear.
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Old 24-06-2013, 09:40   #56
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Re: Legal Stuff

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I think if we didn't have some basic requirements for operating our bots, Towboat US might well find another way to make money.

I can't believe what I'm seeing here. Do these same people chafe because there are rules about owning and operating cars? Because there are a whole lot more regarding driving, and no one seems to think freedom is going to topple because of that.
We're drifting into a clash of ideologies and an abundance of conspiracy theories.

The mods will step in soon to close the thread.
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Old 24-06-2013, 10:06   #57
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Re: Legal Stuff

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My wife and I have completed about 42 years of livingaboard and actively cruising mostly in US waters. We have not yet been boarded by the Coast Guard, but if that day comes, we will be in compliance, grateful for their service and not inconvenienced by their tasks. I had the opportunity to pass behind this vessel not too long ago near Norfolk.....




If you can read the name; then, you likely understand that there are reasons to inspect boats beyond just checking safety gear.

In fact I don't see the name. What ship is it?
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Old 24-06-2013, 10:09   #58
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Re: Legal Stuff

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We're drifting into a clash of ideologies and an abundance of conspiracy theories.

The mods will step in soon to close the thread.

No one has been abusive. If people remain rational, i hope it stays open. The truth is that we already have a LARGE body of information about such freedoms in driving.

I bet there were people who screamed like stuck pigs when driver's licenses were first required. There were no such requirements for horses and buggies, but all 50 states have seen the need.
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Old 24-06-2013, 10:14   #59
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Re: Legal Stuff

Their was much grumbling over here about 10 years ago when women were made no longer Chattels of their husbands!

Last month we decided that race discrimination was also bad, at least in the workplace (lots of grumbling from employers on that!, "I am not a racist but............think of the paperwork").

We are still working on giving wives equality under the tax regime...........albeit the grumbling is mostly coming from the govt!
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Old 24-06-2013, 11:46   #60
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Re: Legal Stuff

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Originally Posted by scoobert View Post
you believe the coast guard could not be replaced, but it can be.
sure some would die. people are allowed to do dumb things and get killed.
but if there was no coast guard i believe there would be two options.
private enterprise. towboatusa comes to mind.
people helping people. someone sinking, sends out a distress call, everyone knows there is no coast guard, people go to help.

a third option would be people being more prepared. proper ocean going dinghy, like the ones they have on commercial ships.
the biggest pain i see is fake calls. i heard a few in long island sound.
they make one short call then stop calling.
You miss the forest for the trees.

The primary purpose/mission of the Coast Guard is (drum roll) to GUARD THE COAST. All other missions, while important, are secondary. Hence the laws were written in a manner to facilitate that purpose; they are merely executing the laws ... don't like it -- change the law.
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