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Old 24-05-2011, 19:39   #76
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Re: Kayaks and Death Wish

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Other than sunny-day paddles in play boats, I treat my kayaks as real vessels... with full attention to visibility and communications. The link below shows the Aire Sea Tiger I used for a few years, with LED nav lights, orange safety flag on antenna mast, marine VHF, GPS, and ham radio. Around Puget Sound, this paid off frequently... though it did raise eyebrows among fellow kayakers.

A friend and I arrived at a raft-up of sailboats in our kayaks once, and I called out... "sorry, we forgot our fenders"

A skipper hollered back: "you ARE the fenders!"

Harsh-Environment APRS Aboard a Kayak

Steve (who now carries a Hobie pedal-inflatable aboard a steel Amazon 44)
I have to admit......"Bubba" is an....ahem....interesting kayak! A bit more high techy than I care for, but interesting none the less. You've made me feel rather old school, with just a compass on the front deck, chart on the spray skirt, and hand held gps and vhf in pfd pockets.

Like the old saying goes: "Whatever floats your boat!"
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Old 24-05-2011, 20:37   #77
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Re: Kayaks and Death Wish

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Originally Posted by HappySeagull View Post
...Kayaks are vessels.Kayaks are propelled.Doesn't matter,steam,mice in a wheel,or a paddle...
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...spells out "power driven vessel" which by definition means machinery........kayaks are definitely not the same as a power vessel in crossing and meeting situations.
I agree HappySeagull and beg to differ psneeld. If you read the colregs literally a kayak definitely is a power driven vessel and here's my interpretation of why.

The colregs state "The term “power-driven vessel” means any vessel propelled by machinery."

The online Oxford English dictionary defines a machine as "technical: any device that transmits a force or directs its application." There is no mention in this definition of an "engine" specifically.

Therefore by my interpretation the term "machinery" in the colregs would include ,but not be limited to, engine(s), oar(s), paddle(s) and any other mechanical form of propulsion. Therefore a kayak has the same rights as a supertanker under the colregs.

Not that I'll be challenging a supertanker in a kayak any time soon.
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Old 24-05-2011, 20:45   #78
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Re: Kayaks and Death Wish

I see them out on the SF Bay frequently. I have no problem with them. I do wish they would get a clue and wear brighter clothes and paddle more colorful boats. The few that do wear a color like yellow are much much easier to spot and are seen much sooner.....and are less likely to become a "speed bump".

Human powered boats are not power driven vessels. No court would recognize this interpretation.
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Old 24-05-2011, 21:20   #79
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Re: Kayaks and Death Wish

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Human powered boats are not power driven vessels. No court would recognize this interpretation.
Can you help me understand why a court would not recognise this interpretation? Here in NZ at least, courts are supposed to take a strictly literal interpretation of any statutes or regulations. Are you able to show a more authoritative definition of "machinery" or other case or regulation that contradicts the Oxford definition?

Any lawyers out there that can clear up my confusion?
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Old 24-05-2011, 21:38   #80
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Re: Kayaks and Death Wish

I am the proud owner of a beautiful Pygmi Kyak. I will only use it on warm days near the dock till I learn to roll. I plan to tow it on some trips this summer. That should be interesting. I also need a real sea trial of my reboarding ladder since I will likely fall in atleast once trying to get out of the kyak and onto Idora. I think Mark J should try one. They don't need to be pumped up! Not only that but think of all those sweet hippy greenie girls he could meet. Nothing but Swave and Deboner.

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Old 24-05-2011, 22:19   #81
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Re: Kayaks and Death Wish

I'm suprised at all the animosity towards kayakers! I guess I was a kayaker before I started sailing, and my kayak cost almost as much as my sail boat, so maybe my view is different. In Canada they are treated just like any other vessel and follow the rules of the road as defined for power vessels. Stipulated safety equipment must be carried at all times. I guess kayaking is a bit of a touristy attraction and this is where the big clueless groups come from, but normally they travel in well known areas. A good kayaker though will never assume another vessel can see him unless it is obvious.
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Old 25-05-2011, 00:26   #82
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Re: Kayaks and Death Wish

Maybe part of the animosity to Kayakers comes from Puget Sound. There are a bunch of rabid environmentalists who are paddling around all the marinas in the sound trying to get people arrested and/or fined for the slightest supposed environmental infraction. I've heard washing your boat is one of their favorite things to get bent out of shape about.
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Old 25-05-2011, 01:02   #83
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Re: Kayaks and Death Wish

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Therefore by my interpretation the term "machinery" in the colregs would include ,but not be limited to, engine(s), oar(s), paddle(s) and any other mechanical form of propulsion. Therefore a kayak has the same rights as a supertanker under the colregs.
It is much simpler to think of them as driftwood.
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Old 25-05-2011, 01:11   #84
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Re: Kayaks and Death Wish

I don't wear tie-dye when kayaking, lest I be seen as a deadhead....
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Old 25-05-2011, 01:11   #85
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Re: Kayaks and Death Wish

Perhaps we can convince Orcas to view kayakers as sea otters, a tasty treat! Not unlike the Great whites seeing surfers as seals.
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Old 25-05-2011, 01:14   #86
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Re: Kayaks and Death Wish

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. In Canada they are treated just like any other vessel and follow the rules of the road as defined for power vessels. Stipulated safety equipment must be carried at all times..
As I said before, that's how I'd treat them. But I expect them to behave responsibly. That means not being erratic (what the heck is their intention?) as well as being visible by displaying bright colors, and showing lights and making signals as required.
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Old 25-05-2011, 01:29   #87
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Re: Kayaks and Death Wish

It is much simpler to think of them as driftwood.

Fortunately, a kayak will do a lot less damage to your boat than would a large piece of driftwood. Might even get by without a scratch in the bottom paint if it was an inflatable kayak
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Old 25-05-2011, 01:34   #88
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Re: Kayaks and Death Wish

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I think Mark J should try one [pygmy kayak]. They don't need to be pumped up! Not only that but think of all those sweet hippy greenie girls he could meet. Nothing but Swave and Deboner.
I'm too old for that, Todd. Oh, are you referring to the other Mark?
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Old 25-05-2011, 01:40   #89
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Re: Kayaks and Death Wish

"I'm coming for you, baby*." (What movie did that quote come from? Hint: the governator on Mars.)

* kayakers and other stealthy boaters.



As the helmsman's position is on the starboard side of the pilothouse, a "driftwood" vessel from this perspective would be out of the helmsman's view. (Hope you heard the horn and are paddling/rowing like crazy to avoid being run over.)
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Old 25-05-2011, 01:54   #90
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Re: Kayaks and Death Wish

I'm curious and need to know. How well do kayaks, canoes, and rowboats show up on radar?
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