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Old 23-05-2011, 11:47   #16
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Re: Kayaks and Death Wish

There are a lot of rentals here. The kayakers have as much experience as they got between the rental dock and where they got in your way. They don't have a death wish, it's just that Darwin's law is especially able to get things done when it comes kayak rentals. For some reason the experienced kayakers follow the lead of the first timers in this sport.
I used to have a lot of problems with them shooting under my trimaran banging their little paddle sticks on my walls when I was trying to catch a Sunday nap. I went to the rental places and made sure that the owners knew that they would lose some of their new customers in a noose if It didn't stop. They started warning the dummies not to go under my trimaran anymore and it mostly stopped. One of my trimaran neighbors would hang drippy rotten fish carcasses under his tunnels sometimes. That got some squeals.
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Old 23-05-2011, 11:50   #17
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Re: Kayaks and Death Wish

We used to have sea kayak's and we carried strobe lights for the dark but we never were out on the water in the fog (stupid ). We still have a double inflatiable kayak we carry on our catamaran but we only use it to paddle around our anchorage's.

Last year at Avlon on Catalina island CA we had it stolen by the harbor (brainless guy) and tied up on the furtherest out buoy because we didn't have official numbers on it so we could not tie it up to the dingy dock I guess. It turned out ok, a nice couple gave me a ride to it, just in time to do an official report about the theft to the local police and they had a couple of choice words with brainless harbor guy, we saw it from our departing boat. Later some official came to the Latt's and Att's crusers party at 2 Harbors up the coast to try to talk us into having our 150 boats to come to Avalon and he got booed off the stage for Avalon's stupid stuff.
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Old 23-05-2011, 11:54   #18
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Re: Kayaks and Death Wish

Here in California, even canoes and kayaks are considered vessels.

Did you hear the kayakers blowing whistles, horns, or used other means to make the required auditory signals in reduced visibility? (Means to make an efficient sound is required.) I bet not. Screaming isn't mentioned as a proper signal.
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Old 23-05-2011, 12:02   #19
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Re: Kayaks and Death Wish

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Originally Posted by webejammin View Post
Last year at Avlon on Catalina island CA we had it stolen by the harbor (brainless guy) and tied up on the furtherest out buoy because we didn't have official numbers on it so we could not tie it up to the dingy dock I guess.
????

Registration of manually-powered boats is not required in California. (Neither are sailboats not over eight feet long, or sailboards, or foreign boats, or USCG documented boats, etc.)
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Old 23-05-2011, 12:03   #20
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Re: Kayaks and Death Wish

As far as "legal status" they got to fit somewhere between surfboard and dinghy. Even dinghies and small sailcats are required to carry a light if in the water at night, or low visibility, and carry a noise producer, (air horn, or whistle).

I've found in small boats if you stay in shallow water you are unlikely to be run over by anything bigger than you are.
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Old 23-05-2011, 12:03   #21
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Re: Kayaks and Death Wish

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Actually kayaks are not even considered "vessels" in many jurisdictions. This means they have no right of way in any situation. This is something all kayak & canoe paddlers should be aware of. There was a recent ruling on Lake George, NY (the Coney Island of the Adirondacks) that cleared a powerboat of any legal charge for hitting/killing a kayaker because of this lack of legal status.
Three of the four sentences in the paragraph quoted above contain misinformation.

Saratoga County D.A. to prosecute Lake George kayak death - saratogian.com
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Old 23-05-2011, 12:10   #22
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Re: Kayaks and Death Wish

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????

Registration of manually-powered boats is not required in California. (Neither are sailboats not over eight feet long, or sailboards, or foreign boats, or USCG documented boats, etc.)
More precisely, this regulation applies to vessels solely propelled by oars or paddles.

Vessel Boat Registration and Information
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Old 23-05-2011, 12:14   #23
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Re: Kayaks and Death Wish

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Three of the four sentences in the paragraph quoted above contain misinformation.

Saratoga County D.A. to prosecute Lake George kayak death - saratogian.com
If you notice, the date on that pub. is last July. They did, in fact prosecute and LOST the case specifically because of the lack of "vessel" status under the law.
poststar.com/.../article_3d7a9a44-679d-11e0-8224-001cc4c002e0.html
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Old 23-05-2011, 12:15   #24
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Re: Kayaks and Death Wish

Bash, that cited article about the drowned kayaker is about 10 months old. The power boater could have been exonerated by now. I wouldn't be surprised if he was.
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Old 23-05-2011, 12:21   #25
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Re: Kayaks and Death Wish

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More precisely, this regulation applies to vessels solely propelled by oars or paddles.

Vessel Boat Registration and Information
You're correct Bash. Unfortunately, my information came from the State of California's booklet ABCs of the California Boating Law, 2010, page 46: "California law requires all vessels to be registered and numbered except:
1. Boats propelled manually
2. Boats eight feet or less ...."
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Old 23-05-2011, 12:34   #26
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Inland Rules Definition of "Vessel"

Can be found in Rule 3, both in the Inland Rules and Colregs:

(a) The word “vessel” includes every description of water craft, including nondisplacement craft and seaplanes, used or capable of being used as a means of transportation on water;
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Old 23-05-2011, 12:36   #27
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Re: Kayaks and Death Wish

Here's a link that works:NCPR News - Paddler death on Lake George sparks call for change

Bet we won't be seeing too many "I LOVE NY" stickers on kayaks.
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Old 23-05-2011, 12:37   #28
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Re: Kayaks and Death Wish

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I completely believe kayakers have as much right to be out on the water as anyone else.

But do these guys have some type of death wish? Both days this weekend it was pretty foggy out. Saturday the fog rolled in so hard I pulled out of the channel and dropped the anchor to wait it out.

Both days out of the fog and darkness I came across kayakers in the channel. Would see one and then look around for more as there always seems to be a spread out group. None were wearing anything brightly colored or have any type of light and it was pretty much luck that I saw them at all.

You would think these guys would be a little more concerned about safety and survival.
Substitute ´kayakers´with 'yachties' and you get ... exactly what bridge officers will say about us sail-boaters!

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Old 23-05-2011, 12:46   #29
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Re: Kayaks and Death Wish

As a kayaker and a sailor, I'm interested in the right of way rules. The colregs do mention vessels "propelled by oars", but only in the requirements for lighting (they have to have a flashlight that they can shine at another boat in time to avert a collision). They also indicate that the rules apply to "all vessels" and that a vessel "includes every description of watercraft, including non-displacement craft and seaplanes, used or capable of being used as a means of transportation on water." As such, a kayaker is bound and protected by the colregs in the same way a tanker captain is. The kayaker's less likely to have heard of the colregs, though!

But then there's no mention of anything but sailing an power vessels in the actual rules about right of way! Darn it. That said, even if you do have the right of way, you're not allowed to hit any other vessel. You have to take action to avoid a collision once it's apparent the other skipper won't: "When, from any cause, the vessel required to keep her course and speed finds herself so close that collision cannot be avoided by the action of the give-way vessel alone, she shall take such action as will best aid to avoid collision."

So you're still not allowed to hit them!

Not sure about the states, but the Canadian regulations don't set out any clear rules that I can find. Regulations - Transport Canada This kayaker's guide from Transport Canada doesn't say much in the colregs section other than what I've mentioned above.
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Old 23-05-2011, 13:01   #30
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Re: Kayaks and Death Wish

From the few details I've read about the Lake George case, it seems that the judge is trying to force the state to legislate a definition of a canoe/kayak, defining them as "vessels" with the same laws governing them as any other craft. As it is now, a kayak is due the same rights of way as a piece of driftwood; no status at all and therefore not afforded any right of way. Of course, this has stirred up a lot of controversy because canoes and kayaks are abundant around here on lakes and rivers. Whether this is just a NY phenomenon, I don't know but if NY law is based common statutes, it could be an issue elsewhere.
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