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Old 29-08-2011, 01:13   #151
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Re: Joe Was Arrested

I believe it comes down to the ability of the government to collect taxes from address-less people. After all, there would be no civilization without taxes.

Remember, you can only continue occupancy of a land-based dwelling, farm, whatever if you pay the taxes. The government has ultimate ownership. Property "owners" pay rent in the form of taxes to the government.
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Old 29-08-2011, 02:46   #152
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Re: Joe Was Arrested

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Biggest stumbling block seems to be if you have registered a vehicle, and anything to do with registration issues being criminal seems to be only in FL.
Not just Florida. This is a Michigan story. I hope in posting it I can avoid lots of the smoke and generate a little light.

Some years ago my son, who lived about an hour away, was visiting. As usual, I asked him to call when he got home to let me know he arrived safely. I didn't get the call for about six hours and, when it came, he said "Guess where I've been?". The answer was "In jail". He was stpped for an equipment violation, light out or some such thing, and when the officer ran his plates he came back and said "I'm sorry, but I have to arrest you.". The officer said he would have to post bail and asked if he had the amount. My son didn't have the money on him and the officer escorted him to a cash machine.

When they arrived at the police station he was booked, photographed and fingerprinted. He posted bail and went home. That's when he called me. I asked what the charge was and he wouldn't tell me. He's a journalist and already smelled a good tale.

Several weeks later I called to ask if he wanted to have lunch. It turned out this was his court day and he said he would tell me all about it at lunch.

We met for lunch at a place near the courthouse. While we waited for our meal he looked around and, pointing to various diners, said things like "That's criminal possession of a controlled substance" and "that's felony assault with a motor vehicle". Finally I demanded he tell me the story. He said that after a parade of various miscreants, his case was called. The Judge said " You have been called before this Court to answer to the charge of..............Falure to notify the Secretary of State of a change of address???". The Judge looked up and asked "Have you notified the Secretary of State?". My son replied that he had and the Judge said "I think we'll dismiss this one".

It turned out that, like many young people, he moved and didn't follow up on the paperwork. His license or registraton, I'm not sure which, was returned from his old address. Neither was expired, revoked or subject to any other criminal statute. Some clerk in the Sec of States office just did his job. He reported it. Some Clerk in the Court just did his job. A Bench warrant was issued for my sons arrest. The arresting officer just did his job. It took a Judge with some common sense to bring the comedy to a sensible close.

BTW, I happened to know a Judge and, when I told him this story, he was very indignant, telling me that this was a misdemeanor and the arrest warrant was perfectly justified.

The moral of the story is....well, there isn't one. It does say something about living in a society where you can commit a crime that results in a criminal record without even knowing about it. Dot your i's, cross your t's, mind your p's and q's and some beaurocrat will still find a way to put the screws to you.

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Old 29-08-2011, 07:25   #153
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Re: Joe Was Arrested

A SUGGESTION,

Take some time to go sit in the relevant court for a couple of days.

IMHO unless you spend time in court you don't know what it is like. It may change your perspective, one way or the other, on how you intend to handle your defense.

Be inconspicuous.

Don't wear a T-shirt that says "**** Happens" (seen that.)

Don't ever argue with the judge, even if he is an ass, you can only loose more.

Judges don't always have to be right, and they know it. They can and will hand out bad judgements, knowingly. Even if they are over turned on appeal they still have the satisfaction of knowing they cost you a whole bunch of money and a aggravation.

This is NOT about right/wrong, it is about mitigating your losses.

Best of luck and my condolences.
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Old 29-08-2011, 07:31   #154
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Re: Joe Was Arrested

I though I would contribute to this rather long thread. I am using an Arizona license that does not expire for three more years. I was good for 10 years. The address on the said document is a Hotel I was staying at at that time. I live near Philadelphia and was doing a project in Arizona when the PA license was getting ready to expire. So I returned to PA and renewed my license and then went back to Arizona. Got letter saying I did not sign some form so I signed and mailed back. Then got a letter saying I did not pay the fee. I checked my account and the check I used to pay had cleared. At this point my License had expired and a I could not even get on a plane. So off I went to AZ DMV and got a License. I have been stopped by PA police and they assume I am a retiree with multiple addresses. I have had no problem from banks or insurance companies. I just tell my story if they are interested.
I think I will avoid Florida. Just as you should avoid Philadelphia (if you watch parking wars).
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Old 29-08-2011, 07:56   #155
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Re: Joe Was Arrested

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Im trying to make these folks feel more comfortable about their situation,
So in order to try to make them feel more comfortable, you are giving them the incredibly HORRIBLE advice that they should just forget about it, not hire an attorney, and accept the loss of his security license?

Wow. Just wow.

I can only say, thank God that Tori is obviously NOT foolish enough to take her legal advice from strangers on the internet, and has had the good sense to get real, professional legal advice!
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Old 29-08-2011, 08:13   #156
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Re: Joe Was Arrested

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I understand Florida is especially hostile towards boaters...
"Florida" is not hostile towards boaters. There are lots of places where boaters are welcomed with open arms, and the state level agencies are generally very considerate of boaters.

Unfortunately, there are a few certain counties and towns where the local police agencies seem to have issues with boaters and (perhaps not coincidentally) where those same agencies, as well as their town councils or county commissions, seem to have more than their share of egos that think they can do whatever they want, even to the point of ignoring and violating state laws when they feel like it.

I would also point out that this thread really has nothing to do with "boaters." The police officer with an axe to grind in this case, clearly did not know that they were boaters until AFTER he had decided that he was going to find some reason to arrest someone, no matter what.
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Old 29-08-2011, 08:28   #157
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Re: Joe Was Arrested

If all the facts are, in fact, factual, they could probably do this pro-se.

So far as the "outrage" and public outpouring? Well, no offence to Tori or Joe, but I'd like to see an outcome before I bring attention to it. If this is all true... with social media these days, well ask about what 5 middle eastern countries what can be accomplished with social media. As of right now we still only have hearsay.
For the record, I believe they've been wronged.
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Old 29-08-2011, 09:25   #158
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Re: Joe Was Arrested

Let's be nice before the Mod's jump in
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Old 29-08-2011, 09:45   #159
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Re: Joe Was Arrested

geaux, tori and joe-- good luck and may you have positive end to this mayhem.
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Old 29-08-2011, 10:06   #160
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Come on now. I live here in Tampa and for the past 4 years drove back and forth to tallahassee. Florida is not a police state in the least. We do have slot of tourists though. We don't know the whole story but I can tell you if you piss of a cop they will find some way of making it uncomfortable. But they all do that everywhere.
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Old 29-08-2011, 10:37   #161
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Re: Joe Was Arrested

erika-might be usa, but is changing faster than ye can know. is not for best, and is starting with the lower incomes and those perceived to be of lower income groupings. just my observations.
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Old 29-08-2011, 10:47   #162
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Re: Joe Was Arrested

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Anyways, Boat US has a great Website with information on how to influence what happens to us sailors.
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Whatever transpired between Joe and the authorities does not appear to have anything to do with being a sailor. At the time of the incident the cop could not have had any knowledge regarding Joe's personal circumstances.
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Old 29-08-2011, 10:52   #163
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Actually when he asked where we lived Joe said on a boat and the officer said "don't bullshit me where do you really live". He did not believe we lived on a boat and the difference between our permanent address and marina address is the reason he was arrested so yes it does have something to do with living on a boat.
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Old 29-08-2011, 11:00   #164
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Re: Joe Was Arrested

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Actually when he asked where we lived Joe said on a boat and the officer said "don't bullshit me where do you really live". He did not believe we lived on a boat and the difference between our permanent address and marina address is the reason he was arrested so yes it does have something to do with living on a boat.
That's like saying if your permanent address was New York and didn't jibe with your current address and you were arrested it has something to do with being from NY. Usually when asked where you live one gives the address. I think a cop would be a bit put out if he asked me where I lived and I answered - in a house.
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Old 29-08-2011, 11:16   #165
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He asked where do you live and why are these addresses different Joe said one is my home address the other is the marina down the road. The officer said you live in Sanford and Joe said right now we live on a boat. The officer doubted us so much he called the marina he also doubted joes employment so much be called his employer. The officer was simply a jerk
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