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Old 12-11-2012, 20:29   #211
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Re: I've had enough!

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Originally Posted by ozskipper View Post
I am sorry, your argument no longer holds any water as far as I am concerned. There is no point discussinng anything with someone who makes stuff up.

In post number 152, even after it was proven to be wrong, you still believe in people eating dog food. Mmm.. what next Home Brand pet food? Perhaps Cardboard? Yum
You never proved me wrong at all
All you did was mention ONE other person saying he had not personally seen anyone eat dog food (I had to provide the link to the story for you)
But he also said he knew of people eating third grade cuts (offal) which to many is as good as dogfood.

What next, you come wriggling back saying something ridiculous like "Lucky pensioners getting to eat Pate'"

Quote:
In post number 192, you say that aged care is getting smaller when in fact its getting bigger.
I said public aged care is getting smaller and private aged care is getting bigger, do try to keep up.
I also said private aged care is more expensive and I expect many cant afford the extra expense

Aged care bed costs set to rise | thetelegraph.com.au

Funding shortfall blamed for lack of aged care beds | Perth Now

Aged care shortfall in Brisbane's city south to worsen | Local news, events and sport from central Brisbane | The Courier-Mail
Heres a good one
Quote:
Aged-care funding deficit becomes clear
"Returns generated by operators of modern facilities are inadequate to justify new supply," it concludes, going on to suggest the situation will only worsen in the long term.

"A rapidly ageing population will place increased pressure on the aged-care industry and the investment gap illustrated in this report suggests that investment is unlikely to keep up with demand. This is particularly true for facilities favoured by consumers," it says.

Mr Laverty said laws created in the mid-90s were appropriate at the time but since 2004 have been strangling investment in the sector.
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/nati...-1226260025852
Quote:
Its pointless to continue a conversation with someone who creates their own facts.
I have created nothing and I have at least provided links so people can interpret the information themselves.

You on the other hand have provided nothing to support any of your claims..
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Old 12-11-2012, 20:55   #212
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Re: I've Had Enough!

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Originally Posted by Doodles View Post
Even if you calculate some hypothetical average figure what relevance is it unless you can compare it to the value of benefits received. Try putting a value to police and fire services, highway systems, clean water systems, public education, etc. etc. If you can't calculate the benefits you can't make a valid comparison. It's an exercise in futility. IMHO
My interest is in spreading awareness of how much people actually pay for taxes, and that the focus on federal income tax overlooks a lot of important and significant sources of taxation.

After doing some additional calculations I'm declaring 41% as the right number, approximately correct for both the US and Canada given some uncertainty as to the size of the family and the amount of the income.

You're right that the next step is to examine how much 41% is - let's say it's $34,000 - would you pay that much to get access to roads, military protection, emergency services, sewer, and the like? Your poor neighbor to the right is paying 0%, yet receiving the same services. Your rich neighbor to the left is paying the same percentage as you, which comes to $40,000 for the same services.

And all three of you are broke, all are in debt, and all are planning to collect the same social security check in the end when the private pension plans are cancelled and you are forced to cash out your retirement accounts to cover your debts at retirement.

Now someone offers you a side project and will pay you $200. It will take a few of your free nights to complete. When you look at your MARGINAL tax rate, however, you see that you are paying more than 55% in marginal taxes, not 41%, and your take home on this will only be $90. You decide it's not worth your free time, and instead spend that same time watching TV and drinking beer.

Your rich neighbor's wife wants to take a part time job, but their family marginal rate is 55% as well. He looks at her $15/hr income, taxed at 47% (income and payroll taxes only, taxed at his marginal rate) and realizes that her $42.00 net income/day will barely cover the cost of her transportation, meals, and clothing. She will be working for nearly nothing. Further, he starts envisioning the things that she will not be doing around the house - things that he has to do himself, taking time from his business, or that he would have to hire outside help to do. He begs her to not take the job because they are in debt already, and her going to work could make it worse - and WILL make it worse if there is any dog-walking or child-sitting required.
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Old 12-11-2012, 21:01   #213
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Re: I've had enough!

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Originally Posted by hoppy View Post
I should mention that the 30% social tax is payable at ALL salary levels from the first $ whether you a company CEO or a pensionar with a hobby job for extra cash. The tax free threshold for the other taxes is VERY low, so much so that school kids who work part time very quickly start paying the taxes.

If I understand it correctly (may be wrong about this one) if you are paid a pension, you must pay the income taxes on it.

Ohh yeah, if you sell your primary residence, it is subject to capital gains taxes. So if you bought your house when you were young and then 40 years later you get fed up with the taxes here and want to sell your home to finance your escape, you will be in for a nasty tax surprise.
Sorry Mate, Thats wrong, Your primary residence if you have lived in it full time is not subject to Capital gains tax,

If you rented it out, you must go back and live in it for a month, then it becomes your primary residence again and is not subject to Capital gains tax,

This was last week when I was talking to my accountant, I just got hit with Capitals gains tax on my investment house, I had it for 17 years and the bill was $50,000.

My own home was and still is Tax exempt,
what I should have done is sell my own home and kept the rental property, That way I would not have attracted any taxes at all. and still have an income from the rental property,

Cheers,
Brian,
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Old 12-11-2012, 21:08   #214
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Re: I've Had Enough!

I havent read all of these posts,

But on a swing mooring in Fiji, its $7-00 AUD a night, you can stay there for 18 months, when you must leave, you can sail to Vanuatu or new Caledonia, stay there for a week and then go back to Fiji for another 18 months, when you must do the leave the country thing again,

Its just to get your passport stamped, and your boat the same,
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Old 12-11-2012, 21:10   #215
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prairie Chicken
High personal and sales taxes result in a very large underground market. You can live & work black as much as possible. Of course, that's what got Greece, Italy and Spain into their current situation.
You must know lots, since no one else has indentified that. Spain is almost exclusively a banking crises. Greece is a case of not collecting taxes at all. Italy doesn't really have a problem at all..

Talk about something you know about please.

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Old 12-11-2012, 21:20   #216
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Re: I've Had Enough!

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Originally Posted by ArtM View Post
My interest is in spreading awareness of how much people actually pay for taxes, and that the focus on federal income tax overlooks a lot of important and significant sources of taxation.

After doing some additional calculations I'm declaring 41% as the right number, approximately correct for both the US and Canada given some uncertainty as to the size of the family and the amount of the income.

You're right that the next step is to examine how much 41% is - let's say it's $34,000 - would you pay that much to get access to roads, military protection, emergency services, sewer, and the like? Your poor neighbor to the right is paying 0%, yet receiving the same services. Your rich neighbor to the left is paying the same percentage as you, which comes to $40,000 for the same services.

And all three of you are broke, all are in debt, and all are planning to collect the same social security check in the end when the private pension plans are cancelled and you are forced to cash out your retirement accounts to cover your debts at retirement.

Now someone offers you a side project and will pay you $200. It will take a few of your free nights to complete. When you look at your MARGINAL tax rate, however, you see that you are paying more than 55% in marginal taxes, not 41%, and your take home on this will only be $90. You decide it's not worth your free time, and instead spend that same time watching TV and drinking beer.

Your rich neighbor's wife wants to take a part time job, but their family marginal rate is 55% as well. He looks at her $15/hr income, taxed at 47% (income and payroll taxes only, taxed at his marginal rate) and realizes that her $42.00 net income/day will barely cover the cost of her transportation, meals, and clothing. She will be working for nearly nothing. Further, he starts envisioning the things that she will not be doing around the house - things that he has to do himself, taking time from his business, or that he would have to hire outside help to do. He begs her to not take the job because they are in debt already, and her going to work could make it worse - and WILL make it worse if there is any dog-walking or child-sitting required.
I'm not sure what your point is. Rates are never equal across income levels and never will be, and neither are the benefits we receive. What can I say ... life's not fair.
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Old 12-11-2012, 21:27   #217
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ArtM
I'm going to watch the movie Waterworld.

Countries like Sweden and Australia are leading all the world's industrialized nations toward global socialism - a transition that is nearly complete throughout Europe and progressing rapidly in North America.

Just last week I started asking myself if there would be any true capitalist nations 50 years from now, and if so where are they? I might just move there as soon as my kids are out of High School and officially under the care of Nanny Sam.

Not kidding - any ideas on this? If I want to live in a Capitalist nation, where would I go? I'm wondering about Africa and South America...
Why do you beleive Sweden is leading the world towards global socialism, have you facts and figures, are the people there unhappy ? Enlighten us.

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Old 12-11-2012, 21:29   #218
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Re: I've Had Enough!

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Originally Posted by Doodles View Post
I'm not sure what your point is. Rates are never equal across income levels and never will be, and neither are the benefits we receive. What can I say ... life's not fair.
Specifically, the point is that progressive taxation is unfair to higher income earners, that high income earners are not "rich", and that the high marginal rates represent real-life disincentives to productivity.

Further, that the countries that promote this kind of taxation are in effect promoting socialist concepts that lead to a massively large proletariat class while gradually squeezing out the bourgeois. It is not good public policy, IOW, to tax higher income earners at a higher rate than lower income earners, since the two classes depend on a balance to maintain a healthy jobs-based economy.

Finally, I agree with the poster in that I am losing interest in such socialist economies, and am wondering if there are places to go that still have 1970's and 80's style capitalism - and I don't think that he and I are the only ones looking for it. There has been a noticeable increase in the number of very wealthy Americans renouncing their U.S. citizenship. The data is too small to interpret right now, but if it suggests an upcoming trend then places like AU and the US have got some very big problems that are only going to get worse!

However, sadly, I don't think there is any such refuge any more except-possibly - some kind of "Waterworld" like Utopia constructed of fiberglass hulls, stainless rigging lines, and high tech composite laminate tarps. So I need to see that movie!
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Old 12-11-2012, 21:33   #219
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Re: I've Had Enough!

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Originally Posted by goboatingnow View Post
Why do you beleive Sweden is leading the world towards global socialism, have you facts and figures, are the people there unhappy ? Enlighten us.

Dave
Switzerland - sorry, I get those two mixed up. I was referring to an earlier post by another person that Switzerland's taxation is much higher, although there is also a very high level of services.
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Old 12-11-2012, 21:38   #220
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Re: I've Had Enough!

Quote:
Originally Posted by ArtM View Post
Specifically, the point is that progressive taxation is unfair to higher income earners, that high income earners are not "rich", and that the high marginal rates represent real-life disincentives to productivity.

Further, that the countries that promote this kind of taxation are in effect promoting socialist concepts that lead to a massively large proletariat class while gradually squeezing out the bourgeois. It is not good public policy, IOW, to tax higher income earners at a higher rate than lower income earners, since the two classes depend on a balance to maintain a healthy jobs-based economy.

Finally, I agree with the poster in that I am losing interest in such socialist economies, and am wondering if there are places to go that still have 1970's and 80's style capitalism - and I don't think that he and I are the only ones looking for it. There has been a noticeable increase in the number of very wealthy Americans renouncing their U.S. citizenship. The data is too small to interpret right now, but if it suggests an upcoming trend then places like AU and the US have got some very big problems that are only going to get worse!

However, sadly, I don't think there is any such refuge any more except-possibly - some kind of "Waterworld" like Utopia constructed of fiberglass hulls, stainless rigging lines, and high tech composite laminate tarps. So I need to see that movie!
Everything I read says the income gap between the have's and have not's is getting larger everywhere and I think the "trickle down" era that you're pining for has been pretty well discredited.

But to answer your inquiry ... try here Economy of Singapore - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Old 12-11-2012, 21:47   #221
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ArtM
Switzerland - sorry, I get those two mixed up. I was referring to an earlier post by another person that Switzerland's taxation is much higher, although there is also a very high level of services.
Sorry the Swiss are leading the world towards socialism, the Swiss. Seriously get some facts mate.

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Old 12-11-2012, 21:52   #222
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...s_by_tax_rates


Afghanistan has very low tax rates.
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Old 12-11-2012, 22:31   #223
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Re: I've Had Enough!

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Originally Posted by Doodles View Post
Everything I read says the income gap between the have's and have not's is getting larger everywhere and I think the "trickle down" era that you're pining for has been pretty well discredited.

But to answer your inquiry ... try here Economy of Singapore - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Ugh Singapore... was just watching a news feature about that. That's a good reference, though - thanks! I'll try to do some light research on their tax structure.... though I would have to give up my US citizenship to benefit from it, whatever it is.

As for trickle-down theory being "discredited", I've heard that said but don't believe it is true. Disposable income does get translated into demand for goods and services, unless people are hoarding cash... hoarding is the enemy here! Substantial inflation will put an end to that nasty trend!
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Old 12-11-2012, 22:32   #224
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Re: I've had enough!

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Originally Posted by Mr B View Post
Sorry Mate, Thats wrong, Your primary residence if you have lived in it full time is not subject to Capital gains tax,

If you rented it out, you must go back and live in it for a month, then it becomes your primary residence again and is not subject to Capital gains tax,

This was last week when I was talking to my accountant, I just got hit with Capitals gains tax on my investment house, I had it for 17 years and the bill was $50,000.

My own home was and still is Tax exempt,
what I should have done is sell my own home and kept the rental property, That way I would not have attracted any taxes at all. and still have an income from the rental property,

Cheers,
Brian,
Ooops, you miss-read me I was talking about Sweden highlighting how tax friendly in some matters Aus can be

I do have the a tax "issue" on my home in Melbourne. I'm not sure if it is quite as simple as just moving back in and making it you primary residence for a month, but I hope it is. Don't need to sell, so I'll worry about that later
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Old 12-11-2012, 22:38   #225
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Re: I've Had Enough!

Switzerland/Sweden.... LOL

Switzerland, famous for Ikea, Volvo and the infamous Swiss bikini team

Sweden, famous for the Swedish army knife, the Alps and banking

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