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Old 09-01-2019, 07:45   #61
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Re: Intellectual Humility & the importance of knowing you might be wrong

The internet, or more properly, the use of 'information technology' has a definite effect on the development (and function) of the brain, particularly young brains. Many, if not most, feel that these effects are much more negative than positive; the consensus on this thread alone seems to support this.

Google something along the lines of 'information technology's effect on brain development' to find plenty of discussion on this phenomena. I started looking into it after reading a book called 'The Shallows' by Nicolas Carr. Seems explanatory--and a sobering realization if accurate even by half...
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Old 09-01-2019, 09:14   #62
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Re: Intellectual Humility & the importance of knowing you might be wrong

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Maybe because the internet provides little or no accountability. People can post with anonymity and thus relative impunity. People with different viewpoints -- politically or otherwise -- are simply not "talking" with each other anymore, let alone "debating." They only read, watch & listen to whatever information source confirms their own predilections, and become literally unaware that anyone else could possibly have a different point of view. The internet allows what seems like rational thought to the speaker to go unchallenged, and then group-think can all too easily take over.
I think you’ve identified a related issue than the one I was zeroing in on. I completely agree around the dangers of anonymity. It’s why I have suggested (many times) that CF abandon masks and insist on the use of real names.

But the bigger issue I see is this growth of the “alternative facts,” world (to borrow from another political statement). And no, I’m not only talking about politics. It is rampant in a wide range of areas, from climate change to vaccinations to GMOs… the list is long and getting longer.

Anonymity fosters this kind of obfuscation of the facts, but it’s easier than ever to break out of echo chambers and get actual data on any of these issues. But I guess it is also easier to get ‘bad data’ as well. The increasing dominance of “You May Like This…” algorithms means even the searches we do are biased to show us what we already know or like.
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Old 09-01-2019, 10:00   #63
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Re: Intellectual Humility & the importance of knowing you might be wrong

In a way there is nothing new under the sun.
The Internet is just a larger version of a high school gym class where rumors, half truths, gossip and bloviating take place to the thrill and adoration of the listeners.

Something I have first hand experience with is the HUGELY amount of false "facts" out there about water makers and refrigeration. Two technical subjects where "opinion" doesn't matter because Facts and Science govern the laws of Physics. However almost Daily I get an email or phone call from someone that "saw something online" and it is not easy to convince them that what they heard is totally wrong. Its like the internet is true...where a guy that manufactures the product is full of Excrement. (ok I may be full of excrement but I know what I'm talking about when it comes to water makers and refrigeration). But it's increasingly difficult to get the Facts out there in a world that believes a stranger (or Russian bot) on FakeBook over the guy building and selling the gear.

It isn't just me seeing this. When I stand around at the boat shows talking to other vendors they say the same thing, how much time they spend dispelling BS, Rumors and Myths. Not opinion but hard science is now not true if it isn't what you want to believe. Frustrating...but that's the new reality. The "smarter" we become as a society...the dumber we are getting.
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Old 09-01-2019, 11:45   #64
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Re: Intellectual Humility & the importance of knowing you might be wrong

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I think you’ve identified a related issue than the one I was zeroing in on. I completely agree around the dangers of anonymity. It’s why I have suggested (many times) that CF abandon masks and insist on the use of real names.

But the bigger issue I see is this growth of the “alternative facts,” world (to borrow from another political statement). And no, I’m not only talking about politics. It is rampant in a wide range of areas, from climate change to vaccinations to GMOs… the list is long and getting longer.

Anonymity fosters this kind of obfuscation of the facts, but it’s easier than ever to break out of echo chambers and get actual data on any of these issues. But I guess it is also easier to get ‘bad data’ as well. The increasing dominance of “You May Like This…” algorithms means even the searches we do are biased to show us what we already know or like.
I think the problem of anonymity -- or unaccountability to be more precise -- is a major contributor to the larger problem of bogus facts. Easier to counter when it comes to marine refrigeration, watermakers, and the laws of physics. More difficult when it comes to more subjective issues, especially when the line between fact & opinion is not as easily decipherable.

As has always been the case, the most effective remedy is usually access to more information not less, but the misuse of algorithms is already becoming the latest form of censorship. Age old problem being applied with new technology. The most serious threat of all perhaps, and one which humankind never seems to learn.
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Old 09-01-2019, 12:06   #65
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Re: Intellectual Humility & the importance of knowing you might be wrong

While you guys and maybe a gal waste time discussing this self-righteous bull poop, I'm spending my time preparing to head down to warmer weather. Today's agenda: SAT internet.

"You may be right, I might be crazy"
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Old 09-01-2019, 12:45   #66
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Re: Intellectual Humility & the importance of knowing you might be wrong

This was a fun read.

I have gotten taken up in views that upon reflection were wrong.

The internet is like an old set of encyclopedias. One I read opined that the folks from Friesland had a dark and gloomy outlook like their climate. Although my ancestors hail from there, I always infuriated people by not getting upset by their anger. I'm not smiling at you, this is my face.
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Old 09-01-2019, 12:49   #67
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Re: Intellectual Humility & the importance of knowing you might be wrong

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While you guys and maybe a gal waste time discussing this self-righteous bull poop, I'm spending my time preparing to head down to warmer weather. Today's agenda: SAT internet.

"You may be right, I might be crazy"
You fixin' to put one of those globe thingies on the back of the mighty 62? Keep us posted.
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Old 09-01-2019, 12:56   #68
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Re: Intellectual Humility & the importance of knowing you might be wrong

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While you guys and maybe a gal waste time discussing this self-righteous bull poop, I'm spending my time preparing to head down to warmer weather. Today's agenda: SAT internet.

"You may be right, I might be crazy"
Yeah, and some of us gals are still workin' for a livin'. Have fun!
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Old 09-01-2019, 13:28   #69
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Re: Intellectual Humility & the importance of knowing you might be wrong

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I think the problem of anonymity -- or unaccountability to be more precise -- is a major contributor to the larger problem of bogus facts. Easier to counter when it comes to marine refrigeration, watermakers, and the laws of physics. More difficult when it comes to more subjective issues, especially when the line between fact & opinion is not as easily decipherable.


Agreed. More difficult with subjective or more complex questions. Although it is disturbingly common to read untrue views about well established science as well. My unscientific perspective is that this is currently on the rise.

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As has always been the case, the most effective remedy is usually access to more information not less, but the misuse of algorithms is already becoming the latest form of censorship. Age old problem being applied with new technology. The most serious threat of all perhaps, and one which humankind never seems to learn.

The targeted or personalized search algorithms actually concern me a lot more than all the overt misinformation out there. This puts us back into the state of "unknown unknowns", but it does it by design. And it does it largely for the ugly purpose of selling us all more stuff.
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Old 09-01-2019, 14:49   #70
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Re: Intellectual Humility & the importance of knowing you might be wrong

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Some years back, I attended a panel discussion about living in today's world with a high IQ. All of the panel members had certifiable, genius-level IQs. At one point the moderator asked the panel "What is the smartest thing you've ever said?"

There were a variety of answers until one guy on the panel said, "I don't know."

moderator: "You don't know what the smartest thing you've ever said was? Can you take a guess?"

panel-member: "No. You misunderstand me. The smartest thing I've ever said was, I don't know."

I think THAT guy was the smartest member on the panel!

If you cannot acknowledge that you might be wrong, or that you don't know something, then you cannot ever learn anything new. The ability to say those simple phrases -- "I was wrong" and "I don't know" -- is probably the most liberating and enriching ability that any human can have.

Sadly, of course, when you look around the internet, you see that there are a HUGE number of people in our world who seem to be completely unable to utter either of those phrases. Their ego forces them to always insist that they know everything, and that they are never wrong. I honestly feel very sorry for such pathetic individuals.

When we cruised in Mexico and asked directions from locals, we often got two or three of them all pointing in different directions.
One particularly refreshing answer we got one day while in Puerto Vallarta:


"Senor, if I told you, I would be lying."




We thanked him for his honesty !
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Old 09-01-2019, 15:42   #71
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Re: Intellectual Humility & the importance of knowing you might be wrong

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You fixin' to put one of those globe thingies on the back of the mighty 62? Keep us posted.
Fixin’ to add another one.
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Old 09-01-2019, 17:25   #72
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Re: Intellectual Humility & the importance of knowing you might be wrong

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While you guys and maybe a gal waste time discussing this self-righteous bull poop, I'm spending my time preparing to head down to warmer weather. Today's agenda: SAT internet.

"You may be right, I might be crazy"
Extra credit for demonstrating self-righteousness by avoiding all this self-righteousness!
(aw hell I’m just jealous of “head down to warmer weather”)
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Old 10-01-2019, 07:21   #73
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Re: Intellectual Humility & the importance of knowing you might be wrong

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Extra credit for demonstrating self-righteousness by avoiding all this self-righteousness!
(aw hell I’m just jealous of “head down to warmer weather”)
I also!
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Old 10-01-2019, 08:48   #74
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Re: Intellectual Humility & the importance of knowing you might be wrong

I’d rather being warm than right!
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Old 10-01-2019, 09:01   #75
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Re: Intellectual Humility & the importance of knowing you might be wrong

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Fixin’ to add another one.
I'm clearly behind again. Hard to keep up.
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