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Old 21-11-2007, 05:20   #1
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I'm a little frustrated

Now, I don't advocate the Parde method of cruising. But after a few years of reading and helping people get out there. Why do we want to have the latest and greatest gizmo?
If changing from land based to a boat home is supposed to be about down sizing and making life simple. Our boats are becoming ever more complex.
This seems counterintuitive to me.
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Old 21-11-2007, 05:25   #2
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you are absolutly right,this is why I am trying to keep things as simple as possible on our catamaran.JC.
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Old 21-11-2007, 05:56   #3
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But after a few years of reading and helping people get out there. Why do we want to have the latest and greatest gizmo?... Our boats are becoming ever more complex.
Those things are supposed to make our lives easier!
I can understand your frustration, but you must admit that as a boat mechanic you're getting a skewed point of view. People seek you out for advice about problems, just like they seek advice on the forum for problems. You probably don't get many people who hunt you down to say "Pat, look how well everything is working on my boat!" or "Pat, listen to my engine, it sounds normal!"
Your point of view is necessarily focused on the problem side of the equipment, not so much on when it's working properly.
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Old 21-11-2007, 06:02   #4
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My theory is that many that are taking to the waters now are not sailors at heart. Every year I meet cruisers that have not sailed before and are on their first boat. A very big one with "everything". There is nothing wrong with this but they bring different expectations to "sailing". They think that getting a boat is like getting a RV, the bigger the better, the more modern conveniences the better. Fire up the chartplotter and off we go. In the Bahamas I first heard of the term "checkbook cruisers". This is what they call them. Folks that have lots of money and expect the same out of cruising as living ashore.
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Old 21-11-2007, 06:03   #5
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Those things are supposed to make our lives easier!
I can understand your frustration, but you must admit that as a boat mechanic you're getting a skewed point of view. People seek you out for advice about problems, just like they seek advice on the forum for problems. You probably don't get many people who hunt you down to say "Pat, look how well everything is working on my boat!" or "Pat, listen to my engine, it sounds normal!"
Your point of view is necessarily focused on the problem side of the equipment, not so much on when it's working properly.
That's not where I'm going with this. I do get those comments from time to time.
If you read many, many forums you'll see the alot of people "can't" go without this or that gadget. Or they want even more conveniences on the boat, just like they had on land. Adding these things just complicates the systems of the boat. This in turn increases the odds of failure. If cruising is supposed to be relaxing why are we trying to hamstring ourselves with the additional complexity? Since most of us are in the 30-50' range. There is only so much space to add stuff.
Why not K.I.S.S.
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Old 21-11-2007, 06:35   #6
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For the first 22 years of my life our family sailed with cold water, no cabin heater, a radio to receive the BBC weather forecast, a new fangled depth sounder with an oscillating light that often as not we couldn't read, a log we streamed over the counter and a bunch of charts. And we cruised the South Coast of England, the English Channel, Brittany, Holland and up into the Baltic and on to Denmark and Sweden...and back again.

Now that was sailing!
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Old 21-11-2007, 06:48   #7
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Pat,

For me, I want to have the right "gizmos" to get us "there" safely. Once I am there, they become less important. But, I think what a lot of people don't realize is that cruising is not just about the process of getting there, but a lot of time is spent being there. I know this sounds confusing.

I am approaching this as not having any piece of equipment I can't do without if it breaks down or dies. This is why I searched for 3 years for a good, solid, seaworthy boat. That is the basic need for cruising IMO.

Eric
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FURTHER
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Old 21-11-2007, 08:49   #8
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I see nothing wrong with people putting as much stuff on their boats as they want so long as they have realistic expectations. It comes across as a little snooty..others deciding what people should and should not have aboard their vessels...when people vary so much in their desires. It's analogous to saying there is a best cruising boat and all others are inferior.

If someone wants a dishwasher and a 50" flat screen and it will fit, then so be it. Different strokes for different folks. Personally, I am not interested in going to sea to test myself or to create some sort of macho endeavor with very limited creature comforts. I want to live somewhat comfortably. I don't expect the Queen Mary 2 but I also don't want one step up from a life raft.
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Old 21-11-2007, 09:08   #9
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It comes across as a little snooty..others deciding what people should and should not have aboard their vessels...when people vary so much in their desires. It's analogous to saying there is a best cruising boat and all others are inferior.
Obviously you've never meet me.

I guess I'm not explaining this correctly.

I see alot of people trying to fit the QM2 into a Catalina 36.

If cruising is suposed to be for relaxation, why do we complicate the endeavour with all these extra systems and demands? It's totally a hypothetical question, not to point fingers and make accusations. If you take it that way, mabey you should look at your self.
and, as I said in the begining, I don't advocate a minimalist life style. But there is a limit to what can be put in a boat. and why strech it sooooo farrrr.
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Old 21-11-2007, 09:18   #10
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Monday...my response was not so much towards your post but towards others in this thread. I am in total agreement that the more complicated one makes a boat then the more maintenance and repairs one will end up doing. I was taking the other side of the issue against people who think it is best to keep things as simple as possible and live a rugged lifestyle onboard. I was also standing up for those who want to put a bunch of stuff onboard so they can have a degree of creature comforts. I was also going after people who don't seem to understand that there are different strokes for different folks and that their way may be best for them but that does not mean that a different way is not right for someone else.

I know a guy who sailed around the world on a Folkboat by himself. I admired him for his accomplishment and never felt he was wrong for doing so.

I guess what I am getting at here is that people need to be a little more open minded about others ideas of what works for them. If I can use an old cliche...There is more than one way to skin a cat.

Thinking more globally here, if the entire human race better respected the differences of how others chose to live, then this whole world would probably be a better place.
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Old 21-11-2007, 09:25   #11
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David,
I agree if that's what you want...do it.
It just amazes me where people are going with their boats and what they deem required equipment. Without thinking of the long term potential complications of adding the required equipment.
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Old 21-11-2007, 09:32   #12
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fridge essential?

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David,
I agree if that's what you want...do it.
It just amazes me where people are going with their boats and what they deem required equipment. Without thinking of the long term potential complications of adding the required equipment.
Fridges a case in point, we don't have one, so far we get by OK with ice box.

Downside is we have to touch land every 3-4 days to stock up which isn't a huge deal right now but it might be soon.
Upside is there's nothing to break, we get by with a smaller house bank(230 amp total and we only use about 30 amps a day), so far don't need expensive upscale alternator/regulator, it's one less thing to worry about breaking. Yet just about everybody considers them essential in our neck of the woods and they wonder aloud how we get by.

You can buy a lot of ice for the $1500-$2000 a fridge unit would cost us too.
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Old 21-11-2007, 09:44   #13
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It just amazes me where people are going with their boats and what they deem required equipment. Without thinking of the long term potential complications of adding the required equipment.
it's the little things that break and are so hard to fix .. even when you are at the dock. i had 4 12V dimmer switches go almost at the same time. salt water is always trying to corrode anything it can touch. kiss allows more time to enjoy the boat.
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Old 21-11-2007, 11:35   #14
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.my response was not so much towards your post but towards others in this thread. I am in total agreement that the more complicated one makes a boat then the more maintenance and repairs one will end up doing. I was taking the other side of the issue against people who think it is best to keep things as simple as possible and live a rugged lifestyle onboard. I was also standing up for those who want to put a bunch of stuff onboard so they can have a degree of creature comforts. I was also going after people who don't seem to understand that there are different strokes for different folks and that their way may be best for them but that does not mean that a different way is not right for someone else.
Just wondering David, who IS your statement directed toward in this thread? I re-read all the responses and I fail to see who is criticizing anyone's choices in equipment. I saw a lot of "I" statements, not "you" statements so I'm not sure where you got that.

I agree that people need to make the choices about their boats that they feel most comfortable with. We have a DVD player and a 19 inch LCD because it might be nice to watch a movie on a rainy day. But if the darn thing breaks down and ends up at the bottom of the Caribbean, it will not make my cruising any less enjoyable.

Some people feel more secure with an array of electronic gadgets. Problem I see is some of those people equate technology with skill and seamanship. Then when the technology takes a dive, they are helpless to get out of a bad situation.

I remember a couple of years back there was a couple from Canada who were sailing the south coast of Cuba with friends on another boat who had been there before. Their friends kept trying to radio them and tell them they were too close to the reef and should divert course out to where they were. Their response was that on the GPS they were totally clear and that was what they were watching, not the color of the water. Boat ended up on the reef and within a couple of days it was stripped and their cruising plans were over. They flew back to Canada.

There is a dangerous line being walked by people who put too much emphasis on the technology they bring along. This, of course, is just my opinion. We all have to do what we feel is right in this endeavor.

Eric
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Old 21-11-2007, 12:00   #15
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I'm very much on the anti-gizmo mindset; I have all the Pardey books.

But I also have a flat screen TV and a Playstation 2. But if either of those crap out, it's no big thing, and life goes on. I draw a line on "relying on a gizmo". For the galley, I have foot pumps: I dismantled the pressure system that was already installed.

I put a Lavac head in, and pick simple over complicated. We're not using the fridge once it craps out, and I spend a lot of energy at mastering light air sailing (which on a Hans Christian is no small feat).

In short, gizmo your boat out till the cows come home. But the minute you have to fix a gizmo that you don't *need* in order to keep the boat safe and moving forward, is a day that a gizmo has beat you, and the boat owns you more than you own the boat.
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