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Old 04-11-2010, 06:32   #61
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Originally Posted by ahnutts! View Post
I don't think I would be comfortable with the idea of foreign vessels roaming our waters armed to the teeth. North Korean yachts carrying scud missiles, Arabian Sheiks on super yachts with attack helicopters. I'd hate to be the guy who has to check their fishing licenses.
I dunno about the North Koreans and the Saudis, I would be more concerned about the US Postal Service Yacht Club arriving on a Rally......

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Old 04-11-2010, 06:39   #62
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Afw for Gods sake, are there still nutty opinions like this around...
GBN,

Levels of consternation vary. This one criticizing the person first with an exclamation of negative reaction "for God's sake" and then with a humor-veiled attack on the person with "nutty".

The rest of the post makes some points for discussion. Specifically, who would not agree with the desire to help all cruisers? No one wants to make it harder for other cruisers.

However, when you shift from taking about the issues to criticising the poster, 1) the credibility of your points decreases, and 2) you make it harder for other cruisers - in this case, to have a thought-out discussion.

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Old 04-11-2010, 06:44   #63
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pirate

But then again.... don't 50mm and RPG's also limit discussion... terminally
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Old 04-11-2010, 07:43   #64
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Tuberculosis got so bad in the USA that the government mandated that afflicted individuals would be required to report for treatment and segregation if they were non-compliant with the protocols and medications required to prevent spread of infection. That law is, pronouncedly, still on the books. If you've got TB and you don't adhere to the treatment plan, the mechanism exists for physical incarceration until the treatment is completed and you are no longer infectious.

Piracy was a similar problem for the 'civilized' countries of the world in recent centuries. They went so far as to legalize (and reward) pirate hunting in order to ensure safe delivery of people and cargo throughout the world's waterways. They would even engage in what was essentially open warfare with known pirate havens, including unannounced, full-on long range bombardments.

The world did end organized piracy. We know what has to be done to do it again, the only question is whether or not we've got the minerals to go through with the dirty work of it. Judging by the response of the general public and significant portions of this forum's membership, I'd say the answer today is a resounding "no!" Maybe that will change, maybe not.
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Old 04-11-2010, 08:07   #65
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Just a small clarification for historical purposes, since there have been some historical references regarding piracy in the caribbean between the 16th to 19th (peak activity was really only between 1690 - 1720).

1) The majority of piracy in that area during those time periods was erradicated by the French, Spanish and English Navies. Piracy was having a significant impact on commerce and trade for those countries. The new world was a significant source of income (new income not obtained from taxation) for these countries.


2) Privateers were essentailly legalized pirates. These privateers were essentially hired to target foreign vessels in an effort to impact the commerce and ultimately the economy of those country. Initially privateers were primarily French under King Francis 1. In their case, the privateers were also a supplmental navy to the French and were also left defending a majority of the French occupied territories from the Spanish. These were not truly pirates but more like a naval militia.
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Old 04-11-2010, 08:18   #66
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why do west indians not like going sailing?

cause the last time some one took them they ended up as slaves in the carib......
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Old 04-11-2010, 08:30   #67
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if you must be in that area and refuse to carry a firearm, just find the cruiser from Texas and follow him in, problem solved. No debate, no moral issues, no problems. Find the guy that says ya'll, get on his stern and go.
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Old 04-11-2010, 08:36   #68
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or isreal
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Old 04-11-2010, 08:42   #69
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Just a small clarification for historical purposes, since there have been some historical references regarding piracy in the caribbean between the 16th to 19th (peak activity was really only between 1690 - 1720).

1) The majority of piracy in that area during those time periods was erradicated by the French, Spanish and English Navies. Piracy was having a significant impact on commerce and trade for those countries. The new world was a significant source of income (new income not obtained from taxation) for these countries.


2) Privateers were essentailly legalized pirates. These privateers were essentially hired to target foreign vessels in an effort to impact the commerce and ultimately the economy of those country. Initially privateers were primarily French under King Francis 1. In their case, the privateers were also a supplmental navy to the French and were also left defending a majority of the French occupied territories from the Spanish. These were not truly pirates but more like a naval militia.
What about the Barbary Pirates that the Somali Pirates seem to be role modleling today?
It was because of the Barbary Pirates that the US have a Navy.
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Old 04-11-2010, 12:11   #70
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new business. idea

Could you put a ship at each end to rent arms. Pickup/ dropoff in international waters. Is it legal have guns offshore?
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Old 04-11-2010, 12:23   #71
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Could you put a ship at each end to rent arms. Pickup/ dropoff in international waters. Is it legal have guns offshore?
great idea.
the 3 mile boom-boom barge.
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Old 04-11-2010, 12:33   #72
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ctl411 has a great idea... just like renting a liferaft for the transpac! The navy could rent out the arms captured from the pirates just like the South Africans used to do...
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Old 04-11-2010, 12:48   #73
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The question becomes how much of those waters are offshore? Not much I think. Traffic passes through here because of international treaty not because they are international waters. If you are inside the 200 mile limit of a nation you aren't in international waters and as a point of fact it isn't piracy if a Somalian citizen takes your ship but is privateering. At this point I don't think Somalia has a navy so I guess if privateers/pirates can do what they like so can others however I suspect your barge might be a pretty attractive target for well armed opportunists or terrorists. Other nations may not welcome your presence in their territorial waters.

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Old 04-11-2010, 12:50   #74
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Sigh..............feel like a fish being caught on the hook of this thread.

It pisses me off more than an inference that one does not support the idea of untrained civis running around with guns, one is somehow a pussy.

That part of the world is dangerous. Most people who get physically close to a dangerous situation where the baddies have guns quickly find they'd like to have one also. Natural, as it does make you feel safer.

But that feeling does not translate into reality.
From all I see and read those countries that allow civilians easy access to arms have the highest death rate from those self same arms. Most of the arms that circulate in countries with tough laws, came from those without.

Untrained gun carriers could be as dangerous as pirates - so why don't we put more energy into getting the professionals involved rather than these long winded, predictible and boring threads.

If we got armed convoys run by coalition navies to escort yachties out and back on a bi-monthly basis, surely that's the right way to deal with the issue until Somalia is capable of policing it themselves?

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Old 04-11-2010, 13:25   #75
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If we got armed convoys run by coalition navies to escort yachties out and back on a bi-monthly basis, surely that's the right way to deal with the issue until Somalia is capable of policing it themselves?

JOHN
I got sucked in too..

Not sure how voters are in the UK, but here spending the millions of tax dollars just to escort a bunch of rich folk wanting to go sailing wouldn't be a popular opinion. Merchant vessels? Yes. Saving a capured American? Yes. Escorting a bunch of people on private yachts, and some don't even speak English? Probably not. IMO the pirate issue off Somalia won't be solved anytime soon becuase it in reality is not a "big deal" to 95% of the U.S. The Government isn't going to focus on piracy when joblessness, the sluggish economy, health care, two wars, taxes, and Lindsay Lohan's latest antics are more important agenda items. I speculate that most of the general public here thinks, "Pirates? Cool, man! I wonder if they are Buc's fans or Raiders fans. That reminds me, you guys want to go shopping later and stock up on food and beer for the game this weekend?"

I'd personally like to see the UN get involved rather than a western coalition led by the U.S. After the last decade I think we are a little tired of being the world's policemen (self-appointed or not). It could be a great training opportunity for some of the lesser navies of the world.

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