How to be an Environmental Steward?

[sailorboy1]

Originally Posted by MarkJ

In fact you could right your wrongs by gently euthanize yourselves. Anyoone over 55 take the Big Plunge! The Earth will love you for it! Then us under 55's can live to a ripe old age in a great environment

us older people are in charge so lets flip it around and euthanize the youth instead

[Mike OReilly]

I agree with Dave. Considering only the US and Canada (b/c I don't know the situations as well elsewhere), the "kids today" have it measurably harder that the boomers, or even my generation (gen-x). But then, most workers are having an increasingly hard time of it. Just look at any economic trend, from real income to cost of living to actual unemployment and under-employment rates. They've all got progressively worse since the 1980s. It's all in the data.

Now, are they "lazy" and "coddled." Perhaps. I'm unaware of any credible data on this. Anecdotally we certainly hear a lot about the coddled kids, and I could rattle off my own stories. But I'm also old enough to know that every generation looks to the younger one and complains about how easy they have it, etc. Doesn't make it false, but I'd like to see real evidence.

One modification to Don L's comment though: having kids isn't the only way the world has become more environmentally stretched. In the rich industrialized nations we've been at or below replacement fertility for a long time now. Yet our impact on the planet has sky-rocketed. More people certainly do create a bigger ecologically footprint. This is happening mostly in the lesser-developed parts of the world. But our ever-rising intensity of resource use has had a far greater negative impact.

[goboatingnow]

One modification to Don L's comment though: having kids isn't the only way the world has become more environmentally stretched. In the rich industrialized nations we've been at or below replacement fertility for a long time now. Yet our impact on the planet has sky-rocketed. More people certainly do create a bigger ecologically footprint. This is happening mostly in the lesser-developed parts of the world. But our ever-rising intensity of resource use has had a far greater negative impact.

+1 , its not the new folks arriving or even the poor elsewhere, its , us, thats the problem, we overconsume .

dave

[Capt Phil]

I saw the writing on the wall a number of years ago living aboard and cruising the west coast. The direction I saw the US heading in, particularly in cities like LA, San Francisco and Seattle was heartbreaking. They were totally focussed on social engineering and could give a **** about the environment.
Solution was to secure a piece of wilderness so far past the back and beyond that no one was interested in visiting let alone living there. Lots of clean fresh water, abundant game and no neighbors. No power or 7-11's either.
It is our family's survival plan to exist when everything goes in the shitter which is where things are headed. Cruising as an anglo will become more and more difficult and dangerous because we will all have a target on us pleasant cruising grounds.
Somalia will seem like paradise!
If you care about your family, have a plan and start to execute it sooner than later IMO.
As goboatingnow observed, it is the overconsumption drug that will destroy the world... we are just the start. Let's talk about somehing more uplifting! Phil

[F51]

Too many people. 6+billion on a blue marble that can comfortably support what--1 billion? The first time I ever heard a figure for world population it was 2.3 billion. Just in my lifetime the rate of increase has skyrocketed. It took mankind what--500 thousand years?--to reach that 1 billion figure in the 1840s. If there is not a massive natural die-off, the pressure will result in wars and man-made catastrophes that will forcibly reduce the population. I hope I don't live to see it, but I think it is approaching. Our children will suffer--perhaps horribly.

[Delancey]

Originally Posted by Kenomac

I weathered the same post. Don't be too bothered by his extrapolation that because he saw one oldster litter a paper airplane... therefore, all people older than himself have worked collectively to ruin his otherwise pristine world.

Respectfully,

As the "other member" referred to I'd like to address this statement by quoting myself - "...at the risk of offending some older forum members here who may have been responsible stewards of their environment..." - which means if you were a good steward in your day, my beef is not with you.

When considered as a demographic sailors are regarded generally as intelligent, highly educated, technically minded people with a higher than average environmental consciousness. This is also my view.

As far as Blue Crab calling me a liar goes, I address that here-

http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...ml#post1325846

[Kenomac]

Please stop all the self-loathing. Don't any of you remember the sad state of environment back in the 1950', 1960's and 1970's? And even before? The US cities looked like Beijing China today cloaked in smoke and smog and with the rivers clogged with chemicals and s&%t.

Don't try to tell me things are worse today... I was there.

We cleaned up the mess so that the kids today (ages 0-35) can enjoy a drink of clean water without having to worry about carcinogens, breathe fresh air and don't even get me started about issues like not having enough to eat and feeding the hungry. Geez, Louise.... they're all too FAT!

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by F51

Too many people. 6+billion on a blue marble that can comfortably support what--1 billion? The first time I ever heard a figure for world population it was 2.3 billion. Just in my lifetime the rate of increase has skyrocketed. It took mankind what--500 thousand years?--to reach that 1 billion figure in the 1840s. If there is not a massive natural die-off, the pressure will result in wars and man-made catastrophes that will forcibly reduce the population. I hope I don't live to see it, but I think it is approaching. Our children will suffer--perhaps horribly.

The "end of the world as we know it:" seems to be very popular particularly amongst a certain sector of Americans. I know of no other grouping in similarly developed "first" world that has this grouping.

This seems to develop into two strains

(a) its all fuc7ked, hence theirs nothing we can do as its all the fault of
[socilaistsm, republicans, democrats, the young, the old, mexicans, immigrants, welfare, etc, * delete as appropriate]

(b) its all fuc7lked, an Im going to run off in a [boat, RV, live in teh middle of nowhere, *delete as appropriate]


Now both of those are quite selfish choices, because both assume that you can do nothing about it and you should seek to protect yourself.

Hiding in the backwoods of course, is no protection, ultimately once people discover its advantages , they come and take it from you , usually by gunpoint.

Secondly of course, hiding in the backwoods still replies on 21th century technology and once that fails , its cavemen living, howll that work out,


Blaming others and especially population growth is of course a further indication of selfish behaviour. The problem is always "them". when of course the real problem is "us".

The world can easily feed, house and provide work for the billions. What it needs is for the pampered and energy hungry , polluting first world to "cop on" and stop demanding a huge share of the earths resources.

Why should a US citizen consume 4 time more power and 8 times more water then say someone living in india.

The solution is balance, and arriving at a situation that is sustainable.

Because if we dont, the mob will find you in your backwoods hide-i-hole and you wont like what then happens.

remember you only get left alone, cause other people "decide" to leave you alone.

dave

[ReMetau]

Originally Posted by Don L

I wonder what people who lived back in the Industrial Age before any environmental laws would say about the current pollution level.

The biggest thing us "older people" did to make things "less better" was to have kids. Having kids is the biggest cause of increased resource demand!

The environmental laws helped clean up our country, but then the huge manufacturing that caused most of those problems just moved to countries with little to no environmental laws. So the problem still exists, its just somewhere else for the time being.

[Capt Phil]

Not so sure I agree with you, goboatingnow... there are parts of this world where most folks have no desire or skills to live. It doesn't take 21st century technology, just the experience to survive in a wilderness environment without power, cell phones, automobiles, internet, etc. Much like aboard a boat. Cruising or surviving off the grid isn't that difficult or a hardship once you are conditioned to do it and committed to bringing your kids up to handle that style of living. My guess is there will be a natural pandemic that will wipe most homo sapiens off the globe if we don't blow ourselves up first. Those who have planned for such an event will at least stand a chance of surviving... those who don't are toast! Unfortunately, there is a plan for 'Continuance of Government' who are exactly the folks we don't want to survive! Phil

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by Capt Phil

Not so sure I agree with you, goboatingnow... there are parts of this world where most folks have no desire or skills to live. It doesn't take 21st century technology, just the experience to survive in a wilderness environment without power, cell phones, automobiles, internet, etc. Much like aboard a boat. Cruising or surviving off the grid isn't that difficult or a hardship once you are conditioned to do it and committed to bringing your kids up to handle that style of living. My guess is there will be a natural pandemic that will wipe most homo sapiens off the globe if we don't blow ourselves up first. Those who have planned for such an event will at least stand a chance of surviving... those who don't are toast! Unfortunately, there is a plan for 'Continuance of Government' who are exactly the folks we don't want to survive! Phil

Seriously Phil , do you really think that in some sort of apocalyptic future, that living in the back of beyond will save anyone.

A pandemic will wipe out the backwoods types too.

IN the meantime, the world will just muddle through , inventing last minute solutions and band-aids. All the backwoods people going to look a little stupid when nothing happens !!!

Why not pull together and help change things , not hide away, waiting for some Holywood ending of the world .....!!

just the experience to survive in a wilderness environment without power, cell phones, automobiles

Suprisingly humans have shown amazing adaptions, and regulary have shown they can quite happily live without whatever technology they might have had. Funnily society doesnt collapse either, in fact community spirt and collectivism tend to rise in such situations.

hose who have planned for such an event will at least stand a chance of surviving... those who don't are toast!

The problem being of course that neither you or I have future sight, you could just be preparing for the wrong thing ( A bit like the magniot line)

Dave

[jeanathon]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

Why should a US citizen consume 4 time more power and 8 times more water then say someone living in india.




dave

How does me not showering give someone in India a drink of water? Moving water is the most energy demanding commoditie to move. Much better to transport grain as a finished product than water to grow grain.
In my op India is overpopulated. Not my fault either, I use condoms.

[Capt Phil]

You could well be right, Dave... but I'm betting on things not going well in the not too far distant future. Hollywood has nothing to do with my opinion... living and travelling in third world country's in Africa, indonesia, the Middle East and India formed my opinions.
I would rather have some control over my future than abdicating my and my family's well being to governments solely interested in their own interests. Phil

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by jeanathon

How does me not showering give someone in India a drink of water? Moving water is the most energy demanding commoditie to move. Much better to transport grain as a finished product than water to grow grain.
In my op India is overpopulated. Not my fault either, I use condoms.

Because this items , are both finite and require recovery. consuming less energy ( gas, water production, pollution) lowers the overall energy demand, allows developing countries access to such commodities and lets such societies improve their standard of living.

Societies with high standards of living tend to have negative replacement rates.

The US could easily introduce efficiencies in energy consumption that would have little impact on standards of life , yet significantly reduce world demand.

dave

[sailorboy1]

so say us all ............................ with our electronic computers