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Old 30-08-2013, 12:05   #76
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Re: How to be an Environmental Steward?

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Originally Posted by jongleur View Post
Having no children is the least
selfish thing one can do.
But sometimes I do kinda regret not adding to the gene pool - especially as me is last of the DOJ's, but time yet I guess.........

.....call it a warning .
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Old 30-08-2013, 12:44   #77
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Re: How to be an Environmental Steward?

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Captain Delancy is ranting about the ways things ought to be. But it doesn't My challenge to Delancey and other young angry folks is what can be done now?
Thanks for your contributions on a personal level for making the world a better place, I respectfully decline the promotion to Captain due to my lack of qualifications, I don't have all the answers.

However, in an effort to elucidate a discussion about what I believe to be a very profoundly important topic, I ask that you all consider that given or current Human overpopulation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia of the planet, on which we find ourselves the dominate species, we are on the brink of a Malthusian catastrophe - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia as first described in 1798 at the dawn industrial revolution by Thomas Malthus as a result of what is considered a Tragedy of the commons - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The United States, in an understandable effort to secure strategic resources at the end of WW2, implemented economic and political policies which did more to ensure the unequal distribution of resources than other country in the last century. Second after that would be England (study Winston Churchill and Britain's switch from coal to oil power for their navy) after that look to the USSR and China.

What a great idea, let's just burn all the oil up, we've got more than we could ever use in a hundred lifetimes. Maybe we won't think it was such a great idea after the effects of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peak_oil and we can't just zip around in airplanes to exotic rum filled vacations anymore, that won't be any fun.

You might be thinking "Gee Delancy, you're a real buzz kill. The problems are so big and I am so small. Doesn't look like there is anything I can do about it except feel bad about perpetuating outmoded thinking and live my life til I die"

In response I would quote a friend who always commented when things got hairy "Don't just do something, sit there!" Studies of lifeboat survivors and people stuck starving on mountains has shown that one of the greatest threats to people in survival situations is their own apathy.

FFS Vote! Your vote does count and will make a difference. On a municipal, state, and federal level you and your friends have the ability to initiate policies that can make a difference.

The writing on the wall that started 200 years ago never stopped. To understand how further how you can make a difference you can take inspiration from Operating Manual for Spaceship Earth - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia written in 1968 and by Buckminster Fuller and from Small Is Beautiful - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia by EF Schumacheer in 1973.

Some of you multihull fans might have heard of a California Hippie named Jim Brown. He is an example of a sailor who made a difference when he designed a Constant Camber fishing boat for the developing world called "Sib" which utilized modest technology to efficiently build sail power vessels from local materials to benefit impoverished fisherman and free them from a dependence on expensive gasoline powered outboards.

In addition to many great ideas on this thread about how to make a difference, on a personal level as sailors and as cruisers, there is more that we can do. Next time you are in the market to buy a bunch of oil that has been shaped into a RIB, maybe consider finding your local friendly boatbuilder and hire him to build you a sweet little rowing/sailing dink made out of materials sourced from this continent such as Douglas fir plywood, White Oak, or Western Red Cedar responsibly harvested from sustainable forestry.

"But I downsized and can't fit one on my boat that is big enough to comfortable row, sail, and carry all my junk" you say, that's ok, there are many practical nesting dinghy designs to suit your needs. You will inspire delight in your neighbors as you sunset cruise the anchorage instead of annoying them with your outboard while at the same time benefiting your own health and happiness.

If you are wondering whether you should replace your Teak decks, don't! Leave the poor Teak trees alone they have enough problems as it is. Forget plantations, they obviously don't meet the demand, and your contribution to it only encourages poaching. Vernacular architecture in Thailand is disappearing because people are selling traditional hundreds-year-old Teak homes to be shipped oversees and sold as "reclaimed" wood.

Before the age of steam the great tradition of American boatbuilding was born out through the use of native wood species, as an example Robinia pseudoacacia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia also known as Black Locust is harder, denser, and equally rot resistant than teak. If you live in the Northeast it literally grows on trees right outside your front door. Beautiful honey brown color to boot!

If we can survive the next hundred years or so, we can maybe get off this rock and go start messing thing up on a galactic scale but until that time our survival depends on the things we do here and now. If I have one goal in this life it is to at least know that I died trying.
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Old 30-08-2013, 12:58   #78
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Re: How to be an Environmental Steward?

17. Prevent spread of invasive species

EXACTLY! STAY AT HOME!!!

b.
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Old 30-08-2013, 12:59   #79
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Re: How to be an Environmental Steward?

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Originally Posted by jongleur View Post
Having no children is the least
selfish thing one can do.
Adopting is the most selfless thing you CAN do, there is no shortage of disadvantaged youths who need loving homes. If you want to be a Saint, there's your chance.

I can kinda buy into the two kids thing as being a somewhat neutral activity, but then again if they'e American, and things don't change, those two kids will consume more than a dozen times the resources of anyone else on the planet, so maybe not.
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Old 30-08-2013, 13:32   #80
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Re: How to be an Environmental Steward?

Delancy - well put! Particularly the bit about apathy.

I'm extremely put off by those who shrug and say that it's just our 'nature' to just consume and reproduce til we hit a catastrophe we can't solve. There's some great theoretical reasons why we can't make that call ourselves (see Godel), and an alien David Attenborough hasn't yet done a Discovery Channel program about us. But mainly because it's intellectually lazy and a whopping cop-out.
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Old 30-08-2013, 14:17   #81
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Re: How to be an Environmental Steward?

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and we can't just zip around in airplanes to exotic rum filled vacations anymore.

now you have really crossed the line
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Old 30-08-2013, 14:24   #82
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Re: How to be an Environmental Steward?

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now you have really crossed the line
I know, I hope Technav doesn't start calling my a liar!
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Old 30-08-2013, 14:37   #83
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Re: How to be an Environmental Steward?

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The United States, in an understandable effort to secure strategic resources at the end of WW2, implemented economic and political policies which did more to ensure the unequal distribution of resources than other country in the last century.

Who proclaimed that everything should be equal? "Animal Farm" by George Orwell the Socialist will demonstrate the many problems with this model in his short book. Read it.

If we can survive the next hundred years or so, we can maybe get off this rock and go start messing thing up on a galactic scale but until that time our survival depends on the things we do here and now. If I have one goal in this life it is to at least know that I died trying.
Talk is cheap... what have you actually done? You sure seem to be an expert at telling others what they should do to save the planet.

Here's a few examples of what can be done:

1. Planted and eaten the food from your own garden for 15 years? Requires a lot of work... most won't do it.
2. Gone solar for your home or business? Again, very few have... but the same talk it up like it's the best thing since sliced bread. Doesn't work on overcast, rainy or snowy days. I should know.
3. Ride a bike to work every day and to do grocery shopping.... even during the New England winters for 12 years straight. I think I'm alone on this one.
4. Collect fallen tree limbs and utility crew wood that was left behind to heat your house. I really doubt if any of the folks on the forum who talk the talk have done that.

I've actually done all of these things I listed above to stay fit and save some money, but the environment also benefited by my actions.

Again, talk is cheap... what have YOU personally done besides expelling lots of hot air and taking up some internet forum space? Planning to do something doesn't count, intending to do something doesn't count... only things you have actually done.

Most of the younger people I meet, have done nothing other than complain.
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Old 30-08-2013, 15:19   #84
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Re: How to be an Environmental Steward?

Well I've had enough of this, so I'm going to get in my car and drive the hour plus to the boat. I will probably stop along the way for few beers and dinner in some air conditioned place. I may not be able to eat all of my meal as it probably has enough calories for a whole day plus, but might have a salad with that has lettuce that got shipped all the way from South America.

Tomorrow I want to go south, but the wind is suppose to be out of the south, so I expert some motoring. But that is good for the envio as I will have hot water as a result instead of running the engine to just make hot water. I expert to have some food out of the frig along the way, but that has been kept cold with a solar panel that the Chinese made while polluting their lands, so that counts as green.

I probably will take my dinghy in once I get to wherever, using my outboard that drips gas all the time while running. I could probably fix the outboard, but it has been running so much better since it started dripping. I could get a new outboard, but that seems wasteful so the dripping outboard seems to be the better green choice.

The forecast says that should be able to sail back on Monday, but I've heard that lie before. But if it does workout I probably will need to use the big chemically make sail, but it is a sail so it must really be green no matter what was used to make it.

I was looking at the lawn the other day because a section needs to be reseeded. But that would involve fertilizers, so I'm going to just let the weeds continue to have it. That way I will have done something green again.

Now that I think of it there are green choices everywhere.

PS - you guys need to lighten up
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Old 30-08-2013, 17:59   #85
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Quote:
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As for me:

Fought against the Shoreham Nuclear Plant in my younger days and won. The Scientist and engineers kept saying at the time the plant could never explode.
EXHIBIT A: Fukushima!
Doesn't fukushima present a better argument for more modern, safer nuclear plants that minimize risks, reduce the amount of waste they produce, reuse the end product to make for a less hazardous waste?

The kind of plant that is regularly prevented, resulting in outdated unsafe reactors being run longer?
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Old 30-08-2013, 18:35   #86
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Re: How to be an Environmental Steward?

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Talk is cheap... what have you actually done? You sure seem to be an expert at telling others what they should do to save the planet.

Here's a few examples of what can be done:

1. Planted and eaten the food from your own garden for 15 years? Requires a lot of work... most won't do it.
2. Gone solar for your home or business? Again, very few have... but the same talk it up like it's the best thing since sliced bread. Doesn't work on overcast, rainy or snowy days. I should know.
3. Ride a bike to work every day and to do grocery shopping.... even during the New England winters for 12 years straight. I think I'm alone on this one.
4. Collect fallen tree limbs and utility crew wood that was left behind to heat your house. I really doubt if any of the folks on the forum who talk the talk have done that.

I've actually done all of these things I listed above to stay fit and save some money, but the environment also benefited by my actions.

Again, talk is cheap... what have YOU personally done besides expelling lots of hot air and taking up some internet forum space? Planning to do something doesn't count, intending to do something doesn't count... only things you have actually done.

Most of the younger people I meet, have done nothing other than complain.
Because of your accusatory tone I would ordinarily cite this posting as a classic example of the type I describe in my original posting of Liar, liar, pants on fire! and dismiss it as such.

However, due to your loathsomely shameless selfaggrandizement (we all read about and noted your efforts the first time you proclaimed them) I cannot resist a rely.

Play that game, I will. If insist, you must. Just don't ask for pictures.

I am in my mid-forties and have worked my whole adult life largely as a craftsman and designer with the aim of enhancing people's lives through the creation of things of beauty. I am not a parasite, that is to say I often work with my hands to directly produce tangible objects with utility similar to a cobbler who makes your shoes or a roofer who fixes your leaky roof, unlike a person who does not and is therefore by definition a parasite.

In my work my guiding principle has always been to optimize design based on the efficient and economic use of materials I learned through the close examination of the mechanics of the natural world. My first entrepreneurial venture in the early nineties was as a furniture maker focused primarily dumpster/salvage material as a source for old growth and/or extinct lumber.

For the past dozen or so years my wife and I have lived in apartments that ranged on average 350 sq ft in a city whose population density exceeds 23,000 people per square mile. Given the net efficiency in which we receive and exchange goods and services compared to suburban America, the fact that we haven't owned a car in as many years, that we walk, ride a bike, or take mass transit through all seasons of the year, and have reduced/reused/recycled a mid-eighties fiberglass boat into our permanent home means my environmental scorecard is better than you and your residences in California, New England, the Med.

For those interested in learning more about me and the backstory of this thread can read the now closed thread Plenty of Fish in the Sea?
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Old 30-08-2013, 21:05   #87
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Re: How to be an Environmental Steward?

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The notion that the planet is a big zero-sum game where everything we take out, some other poor creature or person looses out in the process is complete folly. Some of the posters use a model that looks like the world is a big apple, and us humans are surrounding it and eating away until there's nothing left... complete scientific nonsense.
You have asserted certain things which fly in the face of basic physics and the fundamental reality that we live within a finite system Kenomac. I'd appreciate if you can explain. If you can cite actual evidence that would be most helpful.

I do put before you that your attitude is the same one that has led to the decimation of countless resource stocks over human history. From fisheries and forests, to megafauna and minerals, humans have always looked at the Earth's bounty and seen nothing but limitless possibilities. Late on, we're all surprised when all the big animals are gone, the fish depleted, and the forest have been destroyed. Can we not learn from our past?

Human ingenuity is often cited by folks who say we have no limits. This also flies in the face of all reason, and all evidence. We are as much a product of evolution as any other animal. We have evolved with certain adaptive strengths, and certain weaknesses. It is not "self-loathing environmental activism" to have the humility to accept that we have limitations. The opposite flies in the face of all historic evidence, and physical reality.
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Old 30-08-2013, 21:15   #88
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Re: How to be an Environmental Steward?

I'm 67. It's all the Republicons fault. They haven't done anything for jobs and 40 votes to defund Obamacare makes no sense. Nice discussion. Good details.

Not fair to say that since things are better now than they were, that it's our fault things aren't better.

Go DO something about it.
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Old 30-08-2013, 23:05   #89
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Re: How to be an Environmental Steward?

Delancy,

Yes, you sound great, I love folks who take the bull by the horns!

I do not mean to "call you out" but calling folks parasites is not constructive, and if your purpose is to make a difference, have constructive dialog. I don't like being called a parasite just because I cannot be as green as you( if that is the case, and it looks like it is, ). I'm doing my best, that is all I can do.

Back to the topic

Also, don't forget, this isn't aimed at anyone, but used stuff is awesome. I just discovered Goodwill. Lord, I had no idea the plethera of goodies. Bought a canvas purse for 2.99, cheaper than making or buying I love tea cups, but I break em about once every few months, 99 cents at Goodwill will get you a good quality tea cup ( hopefully this clumsiness will get better). Buying new is not bad, it's jobs and innovation. There are some things I'm not willing to go used, toilet for instance, that's my line in the sand. Others have different lines, and they are constantly changing, hopefully for the good ( me included).

Live the life, be happy, do your best, try to be engaged ( not everyone can), have open dialog in a respectful manner.
That's all we can really ask of each other.
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Old 31-08-2013, 00:34   #90
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Re: How to be an Environmental Steward?

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I am in my mid-forties and have worked my whole adult life largely as a craftsman and designer... For the past dozen or so years my wife and I have lived in apartments that ranged on average 350 sq ft in a city whose population density exceeds 23,000 people per square mile. .....the fact that we haven't owned a car in as many years, that we walk, ride a bike, or take mass transit through all seasons of the year, and ....boat into our permanent home means my environmental scorecard is better than you and your residences in California, New England, the Med.
That's what I was looking for. Thanks. But there's really no need to be calling others who don't work with their hands parasites as you have done on your posts. I work with my hands but don't consider others like my friend Tony the engineer, or Dave the Bond broker who both ride their bikes to work everyday parasites. I guess in your world, physicians and nurses are also considered parasites? FYI: That's a bad attitude that just turns other people off. I also disagree with those who insist on keeping score on the environment issues with regards to "footprints." 'Just makes them sound like Al Gore. It's best to stop keeping score and just appreciate what others have done.

And who says I have residences in New England, California and the Med? Just because I pass through a place... doesn't mean I own a residence there. Do you own a residence every where you travel? Our boat moves around... it's not tied to a dock.
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