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Old 29-08-2013, 16:58   #46
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Re: How to be an Environmental Steward?

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Originally Posted by Bash View Post
A cruiser's guide to better environmental stewardship

1. Sail more; motor less.
2. Generate power with solar and wind rather than diesel.
3. Don't anchor in coral. Ever.
4. Use biodegradable, non-antibacterial soaps.
5. Eat at lower trophic levels whenever possible.
6. Avoid recreational use of internal combustion engines: kayak rather than jet ski; SUP rather than wake board.
7. Live in smaller spaces.
8. Use LED lighting whenever possible.
9. cool off with fans rather than air conditioning
10. no more spear fishing

And try to restrict the amount you breed, of course.
Nice work.

Maybe the thread would be more useful if the discussion went more down this route rather than whining about the economy?

By 'live in smaller spaces' I assume you mean 'get a smaller boat'. Probably the most important thing to do, lower resource consumption, fuel consumption etc...

How about:

11. Use lower toxicity antifouling
12. Recycle rather than landfill or deep-six
13. Alcohol rather than propane stove? (controversial maybe...)

But what about building the boat in the first place?
Using sustainably sourced wood in the interior is an obvious one. Probably using no teak outside at all is the best option, as replacing such a large quantity of teak every 20 years or so isn't exactly 'eco' even if it is from a plantation. Making sure the yard follows best environmental practice, or that you do if it's self build.
As for the most environmentally friendly hull material... that's a tricky one. Thoughts?
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Old 29-08-2013, 17:09   #47
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Re: How to be an Environmental Steward?

One pound of beef requires 12,000 gal of water to produce. Do meatless Monday' and save your blood vessels in the deal. And don't get me started on the urine and feces polluting what water remains. And instead of contributing to the uglification of the American waterways, consider that a strip planked WRC hull requires less than 20% of the oil based resins to construct compared to our Glass Hulls. Sail a used boat. Walk. Work. And I don’t mean blowing smoke up someone’s ass for money. At 24 years old I built the right side of ford Economize vans. I welded hinge plates in. In 1973 I netted $500 bucks a week. . Today my 21 and 23 year old kids struggle to pull together $300 a week. My oldest, a nurse is $90 k in the hole. Tuition has increased 250% percent in the last 20 years. Education should be free. Studies show that 'kids', up to age 50, repeatedly return to rely on their parents for economic assistance far more than any other generation. It’s not because they’re weak or lazy. That kind of thinking is weak and lazy, not mention stupid. They can’t make it in the game. The game is stacked against them. And the reason it stops at 50, is because the parents die, the ‘kids’ get the money and spend it as fast as Wall street will accept it. My 64 El Camino cost $2600.new! My daughter' GTI cost 10 times that amount. Have wages kept pace? Has the cost of living index kept pace? How about the wage ratio between the top and the bottom? Environmentally we are far more screwed than we were back in the day. When fueling up our sailboats if we spill a bit of fuel in the water, most of us, will squirt a bit of dawn to disperse it. That's water BP did on a mind-bogglingly massive scale in the Gulf. Made it go away. Quickly, before anyone could get a good look. And what of the radiation pouring into the Pacific? I remember them bragging about how little damage was done. BS. We are f--ked. And foreclosure on our life style is not far off. And yet another tangent. This mindless behavior of taking sides. WTF. I see it from the right; he sees it from the left. We're on the same train knucklehead! He will arrive at the same destination as you, at the same time. It’s the train to perdition. Discourse has been reduced to a smack down side show. In the north east part of this country back again in the day. 50’ to 70’ there was a wrestler named 'Gorilla Monsoon". He invented all the pre-fighting theater before the match. He invented the smack down. It is what conversation are these days. It is the basic staple of that one hugely popular TV channel. The handsomely arrogant star feigns commitment and interest, the snare is set, the, usually far less bright, less prepared prey makes his/her misstep and ,,,SMACK!!! Another victory for the, everything is wonderful, crowd. Everyone laughs and hopes to remember that pithy line to say to their coffee friends at Einstein’s Bagels tomorrow morning. But you won't remember because you have significant brain impairment from all the faux sugar you’ve been eating. And at those wrestling matches, have you noticed the audience? Without being too cruel, let’s just say they probably don’t retire to their homes and read up on the history, technique and strategies of wrestling. We're no longer aloud to say the word retarded, but you know what I mean. That's who we are, who you are, the audience. We sit and watch the world dissolve before our eyes and we clap. We cheer as our favorite embittered, sick with greed, emotionally delayed hero smacks yet another unprepared 90 lb weakling to the curb. And the seas fill up with toxins. Every other one of us will have cancer in our lives. Men are impotent and women are picking up the rage and heart disease we carried for a century. 70+% of us have significant mental health issues. Each of us knows someone close who is an active drug addict/alcoholic. We try to block out the information that suicide among the young is off the hook. The economically useless people under 18 and the generally useless people over 70 are absorbing the jobs of the used to be useful people in the middle. But it’s not your problem, you’re gonna be out of here in a couple of years. But while you’re still here, a word of advice, don't wrap that flag around you too tightly, because you won't be able to get those tasty hotdogs, made from a cow’s penis’, testicles, lips, anus', ears, eyeballs, and snouts, down your throat, let alone smack the **** out the first person who brings all this up, or tries to make sense out of any of it. . Or God help us, say’s “I’m afraid”. Shares, I’m going to say it, feelings. And the terrible truth is? We can stop on a dime. We have the power/ability to turn right around and blaze a new trail. We have done it from the beginning. It is what makes us unique. So the next time we raise our hand to smack someone, maybe we can stop on that dime. Educate them, or accept the education they offer. Work together, to lay track in a new direction.
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Old 29-08-2013, 17:11   #48
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As the owner of a Great Dane that was large enough to actually eat small children (although he rarely did) this post in the middle of an otherwise pretty depressing thread completely cracked me up.

Thanks for lightening the discussion.
How rarely did he eat children 1 in 4 , ??

Dave
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Old 29-08-2013, 17:16   #49
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Krogensailor a powerful piece of prose , ( needs a fees paragraphs )


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Old 29-08-2013, 17:38   #50
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Re: How to be an Environmental Steward?

And this has what to do with sailing!!????
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Old 29-08-2013, 17:47   #51
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Re: How to be an Environmental Steward?

"How to be an environmental steward". That's where we are. It's a thread about taking care of the environment.

Dave
( needs a fees paragraphs ) ?
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Old 29-08-2013, 18:02   #52
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Re: How to be an Environmental Steward?

I thought it was a gun thread
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Old 29-08-2013, 18:09   #53
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pirate Re: How to be an Environmental Steward?

As an avid thread drifter myself, I thank Bash for trying to get the thread back on track. I actually look pretty good on his list. The three kids weren't my idea but in for a penny, in for a pound.

My ex had a strong feeling that those of us with some brains should at least replace our own numbers to slightly offset the welfare set, the real breeders in my view, in the US.

Captain Delancy is ranting about the ways things ought to be. But it doesn't work like that. It is what it is, and my generation have been real reformers in the cleanup processes.

As a teen in the 50s, I clearly remember tossing empty containers out along the road. We all did. Highways were really trash heaps. But somewhere along the way we invented the term "litterbug", and quickly cleaned up the mess over several years. The EPA came along, and lots of places became cleaner here as companies moved overseas as noted above. The exodus of companies, as we know now, wasn't a good thing for the kids looking for work today.

For myself, I've spent the last 50 years atoning for my teen sins. I've canoed and kayaked a goodly number of western and other rivers. I pickup beer cans and bait containers left by "sportsmen." I'm just one guy but my kids feel the same way and have followed suit.

Overpopulation is the real issue as we all know. As apex predators we've had it our way a long time but I too sense the winds of change. The Fukashima radiation won't cut anyone any slack. An avian or swine flu could signal a new dark age. My kids are certainly not getting the same planet I did and I feel helpless to do anything significant about it.

My challenge to Delancey and other young angry folks is what can be done now?

Bitching about things does nothing.
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Old 29-08-2013, 18:13   #54
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pirate Re: How to be an Environmental Steward?

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And this has what to do with sailing!!????
Cap, this is in the Off Topic subforum of the Scuttlebutt forum. Ya dunna hav' to read it or participate.
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Old 29-08-2013, 20:31   #55
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Re: How to be an Environmental Steward?

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One cannot just look at an individual person or region , god knows , where I am , were awash with water. Thats not the point. Balance is the point. To get all that water to your taps so you can consume costs energy , a lot of energy. That energy is currently generated by in the main burning hydrocarbons.

If the US reduces is energy consumption by employing efficiencies, that reduces the demand on energy sources, that lowers its price, that allows India to buy more and generate a bit more energy, that extracts and processes more water and allows an Idian to have maybe a regular shower.

dave
I am all about energy efficiency. I guarantee you I am one of the few people you know in the U.S. to have a perfectly good clothes dryer that hangs my clothes out on the line, and I expect other people around me to follow suit or take at the least a gentle ribbing for their ignorance.
Having said that my water consumption does not use energy depending if I take a hot shower. The water reservoir was in place before I started using it and it is all gravity fed (for the whole town.)
My point is you must look at the individual or region not the generalities. This is why government is such a predictable f-ck up. Precisely because they lump A in with C and can't understand why they don't get K.
To spout of generalities is to spout ignorance. We as individuals must understand how our situation, our consumption affects the whole not the other way around. There is no way shipping my water to India would make any kind of sense, but not buying the crap that was manufactured in India with the raw materials from my home town does.
Was that to vague?
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Old 29-08-2013, 21:30   #56
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Re: How to be an Environmental Steward?

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A cruiser's guide to better environmental stewardship

1. Sail more; motor less.
2. Generate power with solar and wind rather than diesel.
3. Don't anchor in coral. Ever.
4. Use biodegradable, non-antibacterial soaps.
5. Eat at lower trophic levels whenever possible.
6. Avoid recreational use of internal combustion engines: kayak rather than jet ski; SUP rather than wake board.
7. Live in smaller spaces.
8. Use LED lighting whenever possible.
9. cool off with fans rather than air conditioning
10. no more spear fishing

And try to restrict the amount you breed, of course.
For the first time I've read this thread. Starting from the bottom (page 4) was all I could take. I saw a reference to this comment so I had to find the original comment. Now having found the comment in question, I can say I have done 9 (especially 3, 4, 6, 7, 9) of those for a long time in fact since the days of my youth (other than tech advances like LEDs). But why no spear fishing? That's my honest question which I hope an answer will be forthcoming.

On a different note, this thread is like a race to the bottom. For lack of better terms, it is a cock fight to 'prove' who is more sensitive to husbandry. Such commentary wildly misses the mark of stewardship. Why does a topic of this importance have to devolve into a desire to return to a wholly agrarian and minimalist existence? Take a lesson from the farmer...not that subsidiary of PepsiCo but the true farmer/rancher which is most typically 4th, 5th, or 6th generation family-held ag property.


The ranchers I know would guffaw mightily over the petulant, sophomoric bantering largely found in this thread. I realize that sounds elitist. But it is to them I find a reference. The existing small time producer is held as an example of what this topic is all about.
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Old 29-08-2013, 21:57   #57
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Re: How to be an Environmental Steward?

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Regarded by whom?

C'mon.

b.
You're regarded this way by the Madison Avenue advertising firms that get hired by companies like Rolex, Audi, and Mount Gay Rum to name a few. You know, in case you decide to get a new watch to celebrate that new car you bought yourself before you drink some rum and go sailing in on your yacht.
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Old 29-08-2013, 22:01   #58
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Wow. Whiners suck, and so do generalizations. Any of us with a boat, or computer to online bicker, are a lot better off than most of the world population.

If you are unemployed, or under employed, might I suggest volunteering for litter patrol Tree planting is another great past time. Another great past time is college courses in environmental studies, with which education you can utilize as a volunteer to better society. When you do manage to become fully employed invest half of your income in companies dedicated to cleaner energy.

I have done all of the above and much more. 10,000+ trees later and this "older guy" can say I've made the world a better place.

So lets stop complaining and finger pointing. What have you personally accomplished to better the environment?
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Old 30-08-2013, 00:35   #59
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Re: How to be an Environmental Steward?

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How rarely did he eat children 1 in 4 , ??

Dave
Oh, dear. Not nearly that many.

Kids really loved him. He became a legend in our town over his twelve years and when he died, most of the town went into mourning.

He was big, gentle and dumber than dirt but tolerated anything that little kids could think to do to him. Sometimes a mother might seem a little apprehensive as their three year old ran up and hugged him but I would just say, "Oh, don't worry. He almost never eats children anymore." That seemed to help.

Boomer of Itasca
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Old 30-08-2013, 01:16   #60
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Re: How to be an Environmental Steward?

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Wow. Whiners suck,(edit)
So lets stop complaining and finger pointing. What have you personally accomplished to better the environment?
Complete 100% solar electric power for home and business beginning 7 years ago (cost over $80,000). Drive a little eco standard shift (Scion XB) car only 2000 miles per year, ride a bicycle 10,000 miles. Live on a self contained sailboat 4 months of the year, even make my own fresh water. Grew our own vegetables for over 10 years, not now of course. Heated the previous house with an energy efficient and environmentally friendly woodstove, and cut all the wood from our lot myself. My wife is religious about recycling... drives me nuts. When we had a 2 acre lawn at our previous house, it was full of weeds because I wouldn't use herbicides that would harm my wife's cats... drove our neighbors nuts.

Did and do more than probably most of the whiners and complainers. But they assume (incorrectly) that because we have an expensive boat and car (the 308).... that WE are the source of all THEIR problems. I even had one local eco freak tell me a few years back that my solar power didn't count towards being environmentally friendly.... because I did it for all the wrong reasons.... to save money.
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