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Old 02-09-2013, 05:17   #166
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Re: How to be an Environmental Steward?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jongleur View Post
goboatingnow said:

We have no immediate or even medium term solution to overall population control

We actually do: Free contraception for
everyone would go a long way to stemming
the tide. Wouldn't cost the gov't but a
pittance and would result in multiple
cost savings.

That's free...no cost...available...to everyone...
anywhere...all the time...

We send food and medicine around the world
with no payback, and 5 years later we're sending
food around the world for many more 5 year-olds,
and 5 years later we're sending food around the
world for many more 5 year-olds, and...ad infinitum.

Simple fix actually.
I had mentioned voting as something people can do on a personal level to make a difference, here's the proof - the elected officials in my town provide free contraception in the form of male and female condoms for anyone who wants them.

If you are house bound you can call up on the phone and they will be delivered to you! Condoms might not be you first choice but they can be effective in preventing unwanted pregnancies and the spread of STD's.

Where I live they are provided free by the goverment which I elected. So many people on this forum decry the goverment , if you don't like it than change it. Your vote can make a difference!

Get Some, Get Yours
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Old 02-09-2013, 05:51   #167
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Re: How to be an Environmental Steward?

On the subject of how you vote can make a difference I'd like to share a story about my Mayor and why I am so proud of him. You see my Mayor recognized that the superabundance of automotive traffic significantly degraded quality of life in my town through congestion and pollution and he decided to do something about it.

He knew that people who drove cars would only be thinking about their pocket books so he proposed legislation creating tolls on bridges along with changes to the streetscape including pedestrian plazas and the creation of bike lanes. You see he knew that the stinky polluter people were short sighted and would agree to the streetscape changes if they just didn't have to pay any tolls, which they did.

These stinky polluter people didn't bother to notice that the streetscape changes included ELIMINATING lanes of traffic through the creation of bike lanes and dedicated bus lanes. Avenue that once carried five lanes to gridlock traffic now only carry three. Pretty simple, you want to get rid of cars? Get rid of the roads they can drive on.

The result is a cleaner, happier, and healthier place to live. Bicycle commuting rates have doubled and tripled. A recently implemented bike sharing program has seen further elimination of parking spaces in favor of racks of bikes which anyone can use for a nominal fee. Less parking spots, less cars. Pretty simple.

True, a lot of people aren't happy about it but they tend to not actually live in my town. They are people from somewhere else who insist that driving their single occupancy vehicle instead of using mass transit is their right or something. To those people I say "when in Rome, do as the Romans do bitches! Ride a bike!"

Cycling in New York City - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Critical_Mass_(cycling)
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Old 02-09-2013, 07:25   #168
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Re: How to be an Environmental Steward?

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On the subject of how you vote can make a difference I'd like to share a story about my Mayor and why I am so proud of him. You see my Mayor recognized that the superabundance of automotive traffic significantly degraded quality of life in my town through congestion and pollution and he decided to do something about it.

He knew that people who drove cars would only be thinking about their pocket books so he proposed legislation creating tolls on bridges along with changes to the streetscape including pedestrian plazas and the creation of bike lanes. You see he knew that the stinky polluter people were short sighted and would agree to the streetscape changes if they just didn't have to pay any tolls, which they did.

These stinky polluter people didn't bother to notice that the streetscape changes included ELIMINATING lanes of traffic through the creation of bike lanes and dedicated bus lanes. Avenue that once carried five lanes to gridlock traffic now only carry three. Pretty simple, you want to get rid of cars? Get rid of the roads they can drive on.

The result is a cleaner, happier, and healthier place to live. Bicycle commuting rates have doubled and tripled. A recently implemented bike sharing program has seen further elimination of parking spaces in favor of racks of bikes which anyone can use for a nominal fee. Less parking spots, less cars. Pretty simple.

True, a lot of people aren't happy about it but they tend to not actually live in my town. They are people from somewhere else who insist that driving their single occupancy vehicle instead of using mass transit is their right or something. To those people I say "when in Rome, do as the Romans do bitches! Ride a bike!"

Cycling in New York City - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Critical_Mass_(cycling)
At this point you might be thinking "Whatever Delancy, you live in NYC with a bunch of other self-absorbed narcissists. What I am talking about us change on a national level. There is no way I can compete with heavily funded corporate lobbyists who are the real people who drive what types of laws get passed, no way!"

To this I say BS! Use the money you saved by replacing your Teak deck with locally sourced wood, instead of contributing to the ongoing destruction of the rainforest, and give that money to any one of the multitudinous environmental advocacy groups which fight everyday in Washington on behalf of the environment. We've got our own lobbyists dammit, and they need your help!

As an example American Rivers | Support American Rivers has been fighting to make a difference in the quality of the waters that flow into your bay/lake/sound for forty years and you as sailors have benefited directly from their efforts, maybe it's time for some payback?
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Old 02-09-2013, 07:35   #169
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Re: How to be an Environmental Steward?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Delancy View Post
On the subject of how you vote can make a difference I'd like to share a story about my Mayor and why I am so proud of him. You see my Mayor recognized that the superabundance of automotive traffic significantly degraded quality of life in my town through congestion and pollution and he decided to do something about it. (edit)

To those people I say "when in Rome, do as the Romans do bitches! Ride a bike!"
Sir, I do admire your sacrifices, and I did believe that voting made a difference up until last year, when I realized that I've been on the loosing side of every single election for 25 years in Massachusetts. I didn't vote for the very first time in the last election a month ago.... no matter, I would have been on the wrong side once again. So don't blame me for what's going wrong.... I tried.

Regarding the tolls: I've got news for you, the Mayor you are so proud of, will be putting those toll dollars into the general fund which will go almost entirely towards government worker pensions. He couldn't give a rat's behind about the environment.... it's all about power.

I'm actually on your side my friend regarding the environment, but maybe I just have a few more years on you of watching what actually goes on and seeing though the smoke and mirrors and corruption.

My advice to someone like yourself who I believe to be a well-intentioned, self-employed craftsman like myself, only 10 years or so younger...... go sailing, and leave all the guilt and responsibility behind. Enjoy freedom, liberty and self-reliance. Forget about the others... hopefully, they'll eventually figure it out. If they don't.... it's not your worry.

Ken
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Old 02-09-2013, 07:51   #170
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Re: How to be an Environmental Steward?

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Sir, I do admire your sacrifices, and I did believe that voting made a difference up until last year, when I realized that I've been on the loosing side of every single election for 25 years in Massachusetts. I didn't vote for the very first time in the last election a month ago.... no matter, I would have been on the wrong side once again. So don't blame me for what's going wrong.... I tried.

Regarding the tolls: I've got news for you, the Mayor you are so proud of, will be putting those toll dollars into the general fund which will go almost entirely towards government worker pensions. He couldn't give a rat's behind about the environment.... it's all about power.

I'm actually on your side my friend regarding the environment, but maybe I just have a few more years on you of watching what actually goes on and seeing though the smoke and mirrors and corruption.

Ken
Dude, you are totally missing the point here. The toll proposal which got rejected was a smokescreen for the streetscape changes. The streetscape changes have made a far greater impact on the pedestrian experience than any tolls ever would simply by reducing the city's overall capacity to have cars in the first place.

Some people complain about cars/bikes/pedestrians not getting along but I think that is changing. I think the underlying concept of Critical Mass is playing out and that in the future the new streetscape will operate at a higher level of efficiency than ever before when the automobile ruled the street. As an example we now have dedicated bus lanes. Why should a vehicle that carries one person enjoy the same share of the road as a vehicle that carries fifty people?
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Old 02-09-2013, 08:05   #171
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Re: How to be an Environmental Steward?

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... I didn't vote... ....I've got news for you... ....I just have a few more years on you of watching what actually goes on.... ....My advice... ...only 10 years or so younger...... go sailing, and leave all the guilt and responsibility behind.Ken
Dude, you should listen to yourself talk sometime. All you do is put other people down, promote how great you are, and distract from the topic at hand.

Sailing off into the sunset and leaving your troubles behind is not " how to be an environmental steward" by any stretch, except maybe as a bad or negligent one.
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Old 02-09-2013, 08:19   #172
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Re: How to be an Environmental Steward?

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So, I see you're back to flinging insults. I believe I do lead by setting an example with my actions.

I'd like to ask you Mr. Lake-effect: What have you personally done to be a better environmental steward? Others have answered the question when asked on this forum... even a fellow who disagreed with me... he politely answered my question and I was impressed with how much he had personally done.

Talk is cheap, so once again I pose the question: What have you done to better the environment other that fling insults and filling up forum space with your views?
As usual, you're missing the point. Stewardship is more than just making your own bed.

How can you be so self-satisfied by your own actions when you're also publicly ridiculing the climate scientists and pushing the crap science put out by the oil lobby? And dumping on anyone advocating for real change? And bellowing "big government" and other Tea Party mantras at us?

Basically, if you're part of the AGW denier camp, you're doing more damage to the environment than if you burned tires for heat.

I generally walk the talk, btw. But as I tried to say, individual action is NOT enough. Policy change is required.
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Old 02-09-2013, 08:52   #173
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Re: How to be an Environmental Steward?

goboatingnow said:

The distribution of contraception and its adoption are fraught with many moral, religious and logistical issues

Less than you might think. Availability is
the overriding issue. See Scientific American
December 1993, page 50.

The issues can't be overcome unless
contraception is available.

Because it might be difficult, does
that mean we should not even try?
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Old 02-09-2013, 10:07   #174
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Re: How to be an Environmental Steward?

Mr. Delancy,

You edited out the most important part of my post, please re-read the last sentence or two of the original post. Or, let me put it a different way.... in the words of the great 20th century philosopher Cat Stevens: "You're only dancing on this earth for a short while."

Go cruising.... Dude.

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Old 02-09-2013, 11:29   #175
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pirate Re: How to be an Environmental Steward?

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... But as I tried to say, individual action is NOT enough. Policy change is required.
Yep.

We (and I include all peoples) need some honest independent leadership to step up. Here in the US, I have "wasted" most of my votes on Ralph Nader: a) because we need a third party at least, and b) an utter unwillingness to vote for anyone the big parties have offered in a very long time. I would step up and run myself but for an early dalliance inhaling a then-forbidden herbal medicine. And yet cigarettes are OK. Go figger.

Delancy mentioned the environmental lobbys and that's a very good point. I was a Sierra Clubber and can't recall why I stopped supporting them. Note to self: find a lobby. Note to Delancy: Your use of the term "Dude" is insulting, and particularly when addressing someone older. Still, great points about NYC. Maybe the mayor is less of an idiot than the national news shows him to be.
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Old 02-09-2013, 11:33   #176
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Re: How to be an Environmental Steward?

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Mr. Delancy,

You edited out the most important part of my post, please re-read the last sentence or two of the original post. Or, let me put it a different way.... in the words of the great 20th century philosopher Cat Stevens: "You're only dancing on this earth for a short while."

Go cruising.... Dude.

Peace, Freedom, Liberty and self-reliance.
Cat Stevens? You mean the guy who currently goes by the name of Yusuf Islam and was denied entry to the United States in 2004 for having ties to terrorists, that Cat Stevens? What does he have to do with environmental stewardship?
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Old 02-09-2013, 11:36   #177
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Re: How to be an Environmental Steward?

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we outsourced the manufacturing because it was not cost effective to maintain that level of production in usa any more.
wesent steel manufacturing out because we didnt have the ability to convert to new safety regulations and maintain reasonable production costs.
Well, only partly. GWB and the republicon led House changed the tax laws to offer very high incentives for manufacturing to be outsourced. Hmm, wonder where that incentive came from... An example is the Stanley Tool Company, once a mainstay of a small New England town for over a century. Stanley tools are now made you know where.
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Old 02-09-2013, 12:00   #178
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Re: How to be an Environmental Steward?

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Dunk in a vat of sarcasm and reread.
thank you. It's nice to have an interpreter.
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Old 02-09-2013, 12:06   #179
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Re: How to be an Environmental Steward?

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Note to Delancy: Your use of the term "Dude" is insulting, and particularly when addressing someone older
Respectfully, I find the assertion that because I am younger my views are intrinsically less valuable, and that maybe after I grow up and put some big boy pants on I will see things differently, not only offensive but egregiously so.

If older people were so smart they would be doing something to rectify their mistakes instead of shirking their responsibility.
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Old 02-09-2013, 12:11   #180
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Mr. Delancy,

You edited out the most important part of my post, please re-read the last sentence or two of the original post. Or, let me put it a different way.... in the words of the great 20th century philosopher Cat Stevens: "You're only dancing on this earth for a short while."

Go cruising.... Dude.

Peace, Freedom, Liberty and self-reliance.
Of course cruising is nowhere near a form of self reliance. Hi tech boat with hi tech gear sailing into berths full of high tech.

Really.

Dave
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