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Old 01-09-2013, 15:44   #151
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Re: How to be an Environmental Steward?

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I subscribe to Paul Ehrlich's IPAT formula, that (Environmental) Impact = Population x Affluence x Technology. In once sense we're not really disagreeing, but I maintain that world population is presently not sustainable. It's the area that everyone wants not to talk about, especially people belonging to certain churches who like to argue, despite widespread world famine, that we can feed seven billion people. Well, to me that's not the entire issue, because of the massive amount of habitat loss suffered by other species so that our own species can house and feed itself.

But, ignoring our moral duty, it's clearly ALSO enlightened self-interest to carve a different path. Of course, the carving of paths is such a human response. Perhaps if we could just tread a bit more softly?
We absolutely do agree Bash. The current human population is unsustainable, and the prospect of peaking at around nine billion is even more discomforting. We are in the midst of one of the planet's 6th massive extinctions, and much evidence points to humans as the cause. But at least the rate of increase in our global population is now declining. Unfortunately, the same cannot be said for the developed world's much larger contribution to global environmental problems through our rising rates of resource use.
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Old 01-09-2013, 17:08   #152
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Re: How to be an Environmental Steward?

[QUOTE=dandrews;1327787]
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Which is why the population of Planet Earth is lower today than it was 200 years ago?

Hmmm am I reading this wrong? Population is lower than 200 years ago? Perhaps the death rates lower but we are over 7 billion now. In 1810 we were about 1 billion.

Don

Dunk in a vat of sarcasm and reread.
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Old 01-09-2013, 17:17   #153
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pirate Re: How to be an Environmental Steward?

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... Finally, I'm happy to engage in a rational discussion with civil people. It does not require that we run each down or attack each another personally.


I'm with you Mike. This is fun mostly but it gets uncivil so quickly!

We just get Delancy calmed down but there's always someone else ready to fight. "Advanced cultures" my butt! What bullshit. Give me a _______ break. Many of us are sitting around with an adult beverage on this US holiday weekend. Take those hi-falutin' high IQs, boys, and call someone who cares. And bring me a hamburger, will ya?

I guess this is what the internet offers: a forum without responsibility, a soapbox that ya can't be knocked off of, a place to say any crazy thing you can think of.

As the OP, I was looking for how we could actually regain control of gubbermint so we could make better decisions about the environmental future.
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Old 01-09-2013, 17:28   #154
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We have no immediate or even medium term solution to overall population control. In the meantime the high consumption countries need to become more efficient and use less and generate less pollution in doing so. Simples.

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Old 01-09-2013, 17:30   #155
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Yes, funny what a day can make when you re-read something. Missed that question mark completely. Thank you hpeer for suggesting the do-over.

Don
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Old 01-09-2013, 18:44   #156
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Re: How to be an Environmental Steward?

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We have no immediate or even medium term solution to overall population control. In the meantime the high consumption countries need to become more efficient and use less and generate less pollution in doing so. Simples.
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Old 01-09-2013, 18:54   #157
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Re: How to be an Environmental Steward?

goboatingnow said:

We have no immediate or even medium term solution to overall population control

We actually do: Free contraception for
everyone would go a long way to stemming
the tide. Wouldn't cost the gov't but a
pittance and would result in multiple
cost savings.

That's free...no cost...available...to everyone...
anywhere...all the time...

We send food and medicine around the world
with no payback, and 5 years later we're sending
food around the world for many more 5 year-olds,
and 5 years later we're sending food around the
world for many more 5 year-olds, and...ad infinitum.

Simple fix actually.
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Old 01-09-2013, 19:14   #158
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pirate Re: How to be an Environmental Steward?

I'd say no on free contraception if you refer to condoms. I used to use Forex Fish Skin condoms because you could feel something with them. But they break easily and you're often not aware of it til ....later, if ya get ma drift. The majority of condoms I'm aware of reduce sensation enough that guys, particularly young guys, won't use them.
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Old 01-09-2013, 19:33   #159
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Quote:
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I'd say no on free contraception if you refer to condoms. I used to use Forex Fish Skin condoms because you could feel something with them. But they break easily and you're often not aware of it til ....later, if ya get ma drift. The majority of condoms I'm aware of reduce sensation enough that guys, particularly young guys, won't use them.
TMI! :-)
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Old 01-09-2013, 21:33   #160
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Discourse has been reduced to a smack down side show. In the north east part of this country back again in the day. ted all the pre-fighting theater before the match.


So the next time we raise our hand to smack someone, maybe we can stop on that dime. Educate them, or accept the education they offer. Work together, to lay track in a new direction.

So true. Thanks for sharing. We all need to get together to get things heading on the right track. Instead of just doing the 'smack down' on each other, instead of trying to understand how to work together.
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Old 01-09-2013, 21:57   #161
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There is nothing we can do about the inner city gangbanger who has no interest in improving his environment except through the hot end of a gun, but he won't be around long enough to worry about or change his behavior anyway.

It makes me feel good to have others of the same point of view state them so clearly and convincingly... thanks for that... Phil
Many city kids see no green, no ocean, no trees so the environmental message IS foreign to them. So at the beginning & end of class the screen saver on my computer are photos on my desk. My students see my boat, dolphin, whales, the places we went while cruising and places we traveled like National Parks around the West. They love the photos and ask questions. It gets them thinking they can do that too. They just need to see what is worth saving.
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Old 01-09-2013, 22:03   #162
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It is certainly possible to live with less, and to use less. Using less is the single best thing we in the West can do.
+100000000!!!! Every time I think about buying something, I imagine a massive container ship coming into port. I heard a saying that 'there is no end to stuff you can buy when its stuff you don't need'. There's nothing I need that bad!
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Old 01-09-2013, 23:45   #163
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Like you, I believe that change starts at the bottom with an individual effort. But I see that I've been properly chastised on this thread for believing this folly... for those that are in the BIG GOVERNMENT camp have spoken... change can only happen after my mind has been changed, and I believe what they believe.

This is why I go sailing.... to get away from people who think that way who insist on spewing their crap on the rest of us.
I agree with Kenomac, and appreciate your efforts.

Thoughts for the forum:
Always find it interesting how some folks complain about large corporations then shop at Walmart. The next time you need a boat part would you spend twice as much to buy from an environmentally friendly company, a company not sold on Wall Street (since that means evil doer).
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Old 02-09-2013, 03:37   #164
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Re: How to be an Environmental Steward?

Quote:
We actually do: Free contraception for
everyone would go a long way to stemming
the tide. Wouldn't cost the gov't but a
pittance and would result in multiple
cost savings.
The distribution of contraception and its adoption are fraught with many moral, religious and logistical issues around the world. Again there is no medium time scale solution to population control. Lets just get on with reducing our own load on the environment.

Quote:
Always find it interesting how some folks complain about large corporations then shop at Walmart. The next time you need a boat part would you spend twice as much to buy from an environmentally friendly company, a company not sold on Wall Street (since that means evil doer).
Again this is a "reductio ad absurdum" argument. People need to buy things where they can. But that doesnt stop us making a trend towards, energy efficient homes and cars , pollution control. environmentally and energy conscious when buying things etc.

Simply because you may shop in Walmart does not invalidate the whole argument.

dave
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Old 02-09-2013, 04:46   #165
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Re: How to be an Environmental Steward?

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Thoughts for the forum:
Always find it interesting how some folks complain about large corporations then shop at Walmart. The next time you need a boat part would you spend twice as much to buy from an environmentally friendly company, a company not sold on Wall Street (since that means evil doer).
We rarely if ever go into a Walmart, I only went into one for the first time about 10 years ago... yuck, but I did enjoy the show. Actually at this stage in our lives, we hardly ever buy much of anything except food. But when we do, quality is what we look for... especially regarding boat stuff that can be so critical.

No McDonalds for me, haven't been in one for over 13 years since I took up cycling. Have I missed anything?
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