Hiding Guns on Board

[Pelagic]

Welcome to CF erobert
One thing I believe we all agree upon is:
Conditions can change quickly and self-preservation rules change when social unrest quickly overtakes a region.

I have found myself in that situation and had permission from the local government to unlock the bonded gun locker and get into high alert.
We did and sailed out immediately without bothering with clearance.

I respect the OP for asking a tough question on self-preservation, but agree that advocating illegal solutions is not what we should do.

[1ercru]

Originally Posted by erobert

It is not my intentions to restart the question of having guns on board. There will no doubt be fokes who wish to give their two cents on the issue. I'm going to ignore them when they do and hope everyone does the same.

This thread is meant to address the issue of how to live aboard with a gun when the legality is ambiguous in large parts of the world. Two strategies that come to mind, are to stay out of States that don't allow guns by foreigners. The second is to hide them.

I'd like to hear from people who do have guns on board. Is it even possible to hide a gun in a sailboat. I've yet to sail internationally and don't know how stupid it would be to dismantle a rifle in the hopes immigration won't find a piece of it and figure out what it's for. It would be easy to hide a handgun but if they're close enough to be shot with a handgun then one might as well throw your hands up and try the Stockholm strategy. The goal for me would be to make it obvious to them before they're within range of even a rifle that I will be putting up a fight to persuade against belligerence.

Again, please don't respond with your opinion of if guns should be on boats. There's plenty of threads on that already.

The issue of hiding a gun is an easy one. There are dozens of good hiding places on most cruising yachts, ie: chain locker, holding tank, headlining, floor boards, boom, behind furniture, scuba tank, PVC pipe, etc., etc., ad nauseum. The limit is your resourcefulness/imagination. The real question is, do you want to be able to access your weapon quickly and easily? This is really difficult, especially with a rifle. Ammo must also be kept hidden and available too.

As other have said the penalty for not declaring a gun or ammo, in many places, is an immediate forfeiture of your yacht AND jail time; not an acceptable risk/reward, certainly not one most would take.

For many cruisers, carrying a legal long-arm and ammo are just another part of the process with C & I. Pay it straight with C & I? Lots of risk not to, personal call.

In my experience, after a while even the most enthusiastic gun advocates, loose their appetites for the difficulties of the added bureaucratic intrusion; again that's a personal decision.

Maybe an easy way would be to try it legal first, then calculate your own personal risk/reward equation.

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by Nicholson58

…….

We have a high end metal flare launcher (22.5mm Polish army surplus) and several sub-caliber inserts to permit it to fire 22, 45 LC and 410 shot or slug. I plan to be able to hide the inserts well in our 58-foot boat. I understand that a flare launcher is not permitted in England and other northern European socialist destinations. I would much prefer to carry a real gun such as my 12 ga pump but the realities are that it will; get confiscated, stolen, get us in jail, worse. From what We have read, your best opportunity is for a singel shot or double shot (over-under or side-by-side) shot gun. A shot gun is easier to score on bad guys in pitching seas and at the range you might need need to deal with. I would choose 00 Buck and rifled slugs. Turkey magnums are devistating. Many countries will let you keep this. You will need a locked gun vault. You will need an inventory of ammunition and you will need to show you export ALL ammunition you import. Most 'police' do not like it you have better guns than they have. Some countires will not let you have anything. Consult NOONSITE regarding regulations. Some sailors buy inexpensive guns and lots of power when transiting bad places and sell/swap or dump when the danger is behind. I suggest - STAY AWAY. The rest of the world is not like the US. There is no NRA and no implied right to protect yourself or property. If you kill a local or even cause him to drown YOU are the guilty cowboy from the USA.

You might better spend money on better locks/bars for your hatches and companion way. BTW, I also have one of those devistatingly ragged hook knives for clearing lines from the prop - on a long stick. There is no way to grab this without loosing most of a hand.

whats sad about this type of contribution, is the pejorative language coupled with lack of knowledge or stereotyped knowledge. Not to mention generalities

Things like

The rest of the world is not like the US. There is no NRA and no implied right to protect yourself or property.

In every law-abiding countries with a functioning law enforcement and justice system ( I say that to avoid the usual problematic ones) , citizens have all sorts of rights to protect their property , especially their homes for example

What you forget of course is that once you leave "the good ol USA" you are a foreigner in a foreign land, and hence you do not have your domestic rights, not may you have even the rights of local citizens, suck it up Im afraid.

We have a high end metal flare launcher (22.5mm Polish army surplus) and several sub-caliber inserts to permit it to fire 22, 45 LC and 410 shot or slug. I plan to be able to hide the inserts well in our 58-foot boat. I understand that a flare launcher is not permitted in England and other northern European socialist destinations.

In the UK, ( there is no country called England) , A flare pistol required a license, which is simple to get . Equally a VHF radio requires a license, so what. So a flare "launcher" is quite legal but has been completely overtaken by handheld fares either to leisure standards or full SOLAS versions.

As to defending your property , I as a citizen of my country have quite a range of laws allowing me to defend my home and family, right up to lethal force, You as a visitor on a boat, are a guest in my country and you DO NOT have such drastic protections on your boat. That is only right and proper. What is different is i cannot acquire a firearm soley to defend myself, but I can use one if the circumstances warrant.

Equally as a visitor you may find that specific gun laws apply to you , whereas citizens in fact have different laws. Live with it.

mention has been made to "buying a Gun" , rather then importing it , This si usually impossible to so without a permanent address in the country of purpose. Exporting guns across national boundaries ( or just exporting ) is a realm that ordinary cruisers will never encounter and hence will not get such permissions. SO much for that myth.

As to , as you pejoratively call it, Northern European Socialist destinations, given the fact that some of them have more freedoms and better standard of living then the USA ( consult the tables) , yes flare guns have differing requirements but are certainly not banned.

Note any attempt to convert a flare gun into a weapon, would be illegal and you would suffer severe consequences if discovered.

Most 'police' do not like it you have better guns than they have.

Here most uniformed police are not armed, hence anything I have is "better" then what they have, Ive not found they care!!!

Most countries will actually allow you to enter their waters with firearms aboard, but many will require you to bond the firearm ashore for your duration, this is especially true of high calibre firearms, Carrying handguns is fraught with issues, and many countries will simply seize them

Note that noonsite is actually very misleading as most of the time it simply says " firearms have to be declared", in fact what actually happens can be very much up to the local police.

The only thing I can agree with in your post is

The rest of the world is not like the US

Thank god , when it comes to guns, because we really could do without cruisers floating around armed to the teeth, thank you. I suspect wed have to call the special forces in, and have you shot to ensure the neighbours weren't annoyed.

What grits my teeth on this subject, is the assumed polical claptrap that somehow the rest of the world has no firearms, and that only the cowboys have them and are whinging they are not allowed to shoot up " our green and pleasant land".

Where I shoot, ( in a Northern European Socialist country!) I have licensed a fine array of firearms for my target shooting sport. But I personally see no role for firearms in society as a general method of self defense, in that regard my views align with a huge majority of the domestic population,

Debate the subject, don't slag off what you don't understand

dave

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by Richard Z

Its not just Americans that like guns, or weapons. Its s human nature. There is no wrong in the need to carry them. However, carrying guns in my opinion should be left for the one who knows how to use them and will use them.
This post i believe is not whether to carry or not. The OP is not asking if he should or should not. He just wants to know how to hide.
Although this is not the place to discuss that, or give any info on such ways or methods of hiding, i have a few points.
if you do want to hide one, make sure you break it apart, wash your hands thoroughly then scrub them with a heavy degreasser, then wipe down each part heavily first with a cotton cloth, then with alcohol then degreaser then sprinkle a kind of common food flavor(u have to figure this out by your self). (U can send a pm for info) then wrap them in two or three layers, every time sprinkle more of the magic flavor. Then find your own hiding spot. Keep that personal. During all this, wear clean and new rubber or latex gloves and do not let anything touch your clothes, breath or hair.

You can just carry them on passages and do my first post while at port or anchor.
Good luck

Sent from my Event using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app

Hey Mr Nice Somali/Javanese/Jamaican guys... Do me a favour.. jump back in your boat.. do a few laps round the boat while I dig out and clean my gun...
Sorry guys... go round again its not assembled yet..
Okay ya bastards... Make my Day....

[goboatingnow]

There is no wrong in the need to carry them.

If you mean "carry " them as an american would understand, then Im afraid , you are mistaken, most countries public have no support for public carrying of firearms , because they see no reason for it. In fact in many European countries , given a chance to vote on it, The citizenry would probably ban all firearms. ( so we don't ask them )

You simply cannot extend a US mentality overseas.

Third, if you do want to hide one, make sure you break it apart, wash your hands thoroughly then scrub them with a heavy degreasser, then wipe down each part heavily first with a cotton cloth, then with alcohol then degreaser then sprinkle a kind of common food flavor(u have to figure this out by your self). (U can send a pm for info) then wrap them in two or three layers, every time sprinkle more of the magic flavor. Then find your own hiding spot. Keep that personal. During all this, wear clean and new rubber or latex gloves and do not let anything touch your clothes, breath or hair.

Thats going to easily accessible and ready to use then so…..

Why in all thats good and holy , would anyone outside a rank criminal does this sort of stuff, can you imagine the consequences if you got caught. I mean what happens when you shoot the intruder with a concealed, disguised weapon, Sheeh, Id throw away the key never mind a judge.
dave

[SV THIRD DAY]

Originally Posted by Question Unanswered

This may be a stupid question but here it goes:

Why would you want to cruise to a place where you felt you actually need a gun to feel safe?

Than as a equally stupid follow-up question:

In this place where you feel you need a gun to be safe, do you really think a small hidden gun will do you much good anyway?

Dave...I agree...WHY?

Lots of interesting answers so far in this train wreak thread...but why not answer this question that seems to get to the heart of the matter?

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by SV THIRD DAY

Dave...I agree...WHY?

Lots of interesting answers so far in this train wreak thread...but why not answer this question that seems to get to the heart of the matter?

because those that argue for guns on these forums, arnt actually really interested in the real answer. They are merely proxy debates for a general gun argument.

The real answer is that very few places , like really very few places , would ever justify guns, they are easily avoided, secondly most people are not adequately prepared to use firearms and thirdly really only a complete fool would attempt to conceal firearms and lie when directly asked. Most cruisers arnt fools.

Hence , there is no issue, it doesnt arise for 99.9999% of ordinary cruiser. This is a debate held on the head of a pin
dave

[Mirage Gecko]

When cruising I am more concerned where to hide the beer from freeloaders

[johnmcntsh]

What next??? Are we going to give advice on where to hide marijuana on a boat in order to get it into Malaysia?
The OP is asking how to subvert the criminal laws in other countries. Not a worthy topic.

[Kenomac]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

... can you imagine the consequences if you got caught. I mean what happens when you shoot the intruder with a concealed, disguised weapon....
dave

Anchor thread

[SV THIRD DAY]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

Hence , there is no issue, it doesnt arise for 99.9999% of ordinary cruiser. This is a debate held on the head of a pin
dave

You nailed it Dave!
This is something that cruisers in planning ask and worry about as they watch the Main Stream Media paint all other Countries except their own as dangers. Like clockwork every time a drug crime happened in a Mexican border town we would get the stroy forwarded to us via email from friends and family begging us to get out of dangerous, murderous Mexico. I tried and tried to tell them about reality, but gave up and then just did a quick google search of their home town for the latest murder and sent that link back to them with the same "get out of there plea".

You talk to cruisers in the anchorages and marinas and they could give a rats ass about wanting a gun, but when it gets brought up on a chat room and you would think the entire fleet is packing heat!

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by johnmcntsh

What next??? Are we going to give advice on where to hide marijuana on a boat in order to get it into Malaysia?
The OP is asking how to subvert the criminal laws in other countries. Not a worthy topic.

Actually it would subvert the criminal laws of the US if he was a foreigner sailing into the Us. The US is actually a very difficult place to bring in legally held firearms , like for target shooting competitions etc.

Dave

[SV THIRD DAY]

Originally Posted by Mirage Gecko

When cruising I am more concerned where to hide the beer from freeloaders

Ha ha ha...man that cracks me up because it's TRUE...ha ha ah

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by Mirage Gecko

When cruising I am more concerned where to hide the beer from freeloaders

No worries... got a beer sniffing dog...

[CarinaPDX]

Originally Posted by boatman61

No worries... got a beer sniffing dog...

Great idea! Will they smell out good rum as well?

Greg