Hiding Guns on Board

[sailorboy1]

Originally Posted by Jon Neely

I am tempted to conduct a test when we go cruising. I have on our boat a very accessible but well hidden spot in one of our walls that could easily harbor a handgun and ammo. We will not be cruising with a gun nor drugs but I think i am going to put a piece of mild steel that would represent a gun. See how badly its rusts. Also maybe a double baggie of cut grass to represent reefer. I might even go to the point of getting one of my stoner friends to rub weed scent on the inside of the baggie (as long as thats legal). It would be interesting to see if it ever gets discovered.

You don't tug on Superman's cape
You don't spit into the wind
You don't pull the mast off the old Lone Ranger
And you don't mess with custom man Jim

[Jon Neely]

Ok, OK guys I won't do the baggie.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app

[wellin]

Originally Posted by lifeofreilly57

You might not want to do that.
Even the residue left on the bag would be enough to provide evidence enough to hold you, depends on how good the testing equipment is in the location that does find it. Dogs are quite good at picking up even the slightest hint or trace of the scent. A number of countries will confiscate the boat in that case, then it's up to you to get it back, it's a for profit scheme.
Better just not to tempt the gods.

And they probably will keep cutting the boat into smaller chunks til they DO find it. Your "boat" might be better off if they find your stash, only then will they stop cutting!!

Sent from my SCH-I415 using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app

[gnocchi]

Here’s my position on this.
1- Uphold the law of the land and the sea at all times.
2- If you are in fear of a real piracy attack, a hand gun or rifle will only get you in a worse position, and will not deter pirates.
3- If you are afraid of the place you are going to, don’t go.
4- If you are looking to defend yourself from nightly intruders at the mooring that may want your outboard or to steal equipment, then there are lots of non lethal alternatives that will be effective.

For non lethal alternatives:
- Fully automatic gas operated paintball guns are extremely painful, can sustain a very high rate of fire, and most people will not want to face them
- Pepper gas, pepper guns, and some other alternatives are a good thing to have on (they are illegal in many countries)
- Prop fowlers made of steel netting with buoyancy devices or other strong ropes that will float to stop a motorized pursuit (temporarily)
- Tazers and other electrical shock devices (they are illegal in many countries)

In any case, all of these ‘precautions’ I took where never needed in the Caribbean or around SoFlo

[StuM]

Another necropost


Thread has been dead for 6 years.

[CarinaPDX]

At least give him credit for doing a search before starting yet another thread on the same topic.

Greg

[Wotname]

Welcome aboard CF, gnocchi.

[NorthernMac]

Since you brought it back from the dead lol

Originally Posted by gnocchi

Here’s my position on this.
1- Uphold the law of the land and the sea at all times.

Yes, agree, but your ultimate responsibility is to you, yours and the safety of your vessel, tread carefully but know you are your first and last line of defense in all things, always

Originally Posted by gnocchi

2- If you are in fear of a real piracy attack, a hand gun or rifle will only get you in a worse position, and will not deter pirates.

This is just false; I can post tons of videos of criminals acting very bold until their buddies head come apart like a watermelon. As humans we like to think we are special, we are just animals, watch nat geo, the predators attack weak prey and they don’t try to engage when they will take more damage than meat back home.

That said, if you are going to have any piece of equipment, be it a emergency tiller, generator, epirb, or carbine, you need to train on how to use it, and have the fortitude and common sense to known when to use it, hesitation is devastation.

Originally Posted by gnocchi

3- If you are afraid of the place you are going to, don’t go.

Agreed.

That said predators are all over, had a attempted home invasion in a VERY nice neighborhood I lived in state side, didn’t see that coming, that said being armed was why it was a attempted home invasion, this hints back to your #2

Originally Posted by gnocchi

4- If you are looking to defend yourself from nightly intruders at the mooring that may want your outboard or to steal equipment, then there are lots of non lethal alternatives that will be effective.

For non lethal alternatives:
- Fully automatic gas operated paintball guns are extremely painful, can sustain a very high rate of fire, and most people will not want to face them
- Pepper gas, pepper guns, and some other alternatives are a good thing to have on (they are illegal in many countries)
- Prop fowlers made of steel netting with buoyancy devices or other strong ropes that will float to stop a motorized pursuit (temporarily)
- Tazers and other electrical shock devices (they are illegal in many countries)
.

Careful with this, in some areas if you feel the need to defend yourself and use non lethal there can be a argument made to if you really thought your life was in danger why did you go non lethal, also some of that stuff can cause issues if you don’t know how to use it, especial OC spray and the like

Prop fowlers tend to work best when you are more maneuverable, watch the “sea shepherds” they are only really working out when deployed from a high speed RIB onto a large vessel, not sure deploying them off a sub 10kt sailboat against a stolen RIB or fishing boat filled with criminals will work out most often.

Id say if you want something that will not be a firearm but can be used to fend of a attempted boarding, reading some history, some empty bottles
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_fire

Originally Posted by gnocchi

In any case, all of these ‘precautions’ I took where never needed in the Caribbean or around SoFlo

That’s good to hear, I have never had to use my fire extinguishers, tourniquets, quick clot, SAM splints, or EPIRB on my boat yet, hope to never need to, that said they are part of the boats equipment and checked/updated/replenished as required.

Its like anything else, just a big threat matrix, a choose your own adventure, best we can do is try to pick the best road for us at the time

[GermanSailor88]

After two round the world trips I can only talk from my experience.

We always had firearms onboard for protection and after a bad experience in Greece in the early 90's being jailed for trying to declare the weapons to customs since before the internet the beaurocratic process was not as clear as today, we decided to conceal the firearms onboard.

in the 10 years travelling the world with our boat we only ever had one situation that we had to get the guns out and that was in 2005 while travelling to the Seychelles from the med. The whole piracy situation just started to develop and we were approached and followed by two fishing skiffs within a shouting distance for several hours in the middle of the Indian Ocean. When we saw that the men were armed two of our crewmembers took cover positions on deck with the guns showing openly and that was enough for the skiffs to become uninterested and turn away.

Even if the pirates have more and better weapons they would always be at a disadvantage in a small wooden skiff with no cover possibility trying to board a moving 90ft steel sailing yacht while having the risk of being fired upon during their manouver.

However you can never fully predict an attackers actions, especially when they are very desperate which is why we decided after this event not to do these kind of risky passages anymore, and even got rid of our firearms onboard since the only reason was to have them as a last line of defense for passages in dangerous areas.

When cruising in countries that do not allow firearms I would not recommend bringing guns for protection
1. because you would need to have them open or quickly accessible in order to be of any use and that would eliminate the effectiveness of any hiding spot (if you can access the gun within minutes be sure a customs agent will not have a problem finding it as well)
2. If you use it for defense and the authorities find out you will be charged with weapons smuggling which will leave you in jail even though you just defended yourself

If you do need to conceal a weapon due to a crossing through a dangerous waters it depends completely on the boat and boat size where you hide them. We hid them in a spot inside the topside of the boat that took considerable amount of time and tools to access, left them out for while under passage and stowed them again before arriving at the destination.

[mako]

This is always a contentious subject, but it’s nice to hear some practical feedback like what 88 just offered.

I would support the statement about carrying for a short time when transiting a risky region (and not making landfall), versus carrying continuously on your worldwide cruise.

Having just returned after more than a decade in the Middle East and Asia, I’ve seen that there are opportunities where you could pickup a firearm “locally” then make your transit then just toss overboard upon reaching your destination.

Of course the best option is still just avoidance.

[Ruso]

"This topic is under unusual scrutiny by forum moderators and posts may require moderator approval before they will display for others to view."
No doubt. The thread "How to smuggle firearms in foreign country" entertaining reading but totally pointless even stupid for any public discussion.
Here is my two cents... Not into maritime but had plenty working experience with customs and risk management in a civil unrest environment. I will try not to make my notes educational

Are you going to compete with professional customs personnel who do search for living - what you do for living? Smuggling? If not - forget about it - you will get busted.
Firearms will not elevate your ability for self-defense - it worsens it. It puts you outside of the legal framework and you going to be on your own facing consequences of your actions.
Your boat is your home therefore there are plenty of legal tools and resources on board available if you know how and willing to use them. Ohh.. facing consequences applicable as well.
If you feel unsafe and vulnerable - don't go there. Your feelings making you "prey" - firearms in your possession will not change it.

[Shrew]

Originally Posted by CarinaPDX

At least give him credit for doing a search before starting yet another thread on the same topic.

Greg

He didn't search to find the answer before posting a question. He searched and resurrected a 6 year old thread to provide his opinion on the matter for which the OP has long since disappeared.

[bobnlesley]

Originally Posted by erobert

...I've yet to sail internationally...

Why am I not surprised?

[Wotname]

The thread was opened in 2014.

2 years ago the representative of the owner of CF remodelled the forum to effectivity stop these gun discussions. All posts after March 3, 2022 have been removed and the thread will remain closed.

For more info, see https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums...um-261699.html