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Old 01-02-2012, 12:03   #31
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Re: Heavy Weather

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Originally Posted by Khagan1227 View Post
I was a bobber in those cruisers. I've been through 3 hurricanes, one a cat 4. Even in the worst I wasn't too worried, until the flooding alarm came in. Lost a deck hatch that lead to an elevator shaft that serviced 5 decks and caused the flooding. We lost a ship's bell, the elevator hatch, and three superstructure hatches and 75% of our radio antennas.

I can tell you from personal experience that at least one of the cruisers I was on could do a 49 degree roll and still right itself.
I know what you mean. The America got caught in a hurricane in Hong Kong while trying to build enough steam to leave, was very rough when we finnally got out. Had two destoyer escort's behind us. I think they got flight pay & sub pay on that trip. Really felt for them, don't think they could have walked on those ships. ..Michael..

That was amazing to watch..........
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Old 01-02-2012, 12:33   #32
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Re: Heavy Weather

damn...
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Old 01-02-2012, 12:44   #33
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Re: Heavy Weather

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Try sailing the northern lats, let us know how it was..Michael..
is why i dont sail northern lats.....heavy weather is bad enough in warm waters.....
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Old 01-02-2012, 13:48   #34
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Re: Heavy Weather

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Is it no longer the thinking, or did you just move on?



A Sundeer of course feels aequal to this video), but... I don't agree that these are "survival conditions". The tops look tame and not dangerous, like these have built for a while and are stable. So, yes, maybe hove to if we wanted to go to windward, or close reaching if you are a Sundeer. But they still look reachable or runnable, and not the kind of thing you'd start doing capital-s Survival things unless you felt there was a good chance for a rare and dangerous wave in this set. Or do you guys feel like if the seas look like this then it's likely there'll be a one-in-a-hundred wave that could kill you, a sheer cliff of vertical water that's breaking (as in the Perfect Storm video clip)?
Such Bravado!
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Old 01-02-2012, 14:30   #35
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Such Bravado!
Yes lol there's a couple Sundeer members here on CF and I'm sure I speak for all when I say that we all would be in survival mode in those conditions certainly not going against it.

With a small boat, you have to wonder if you're gonna make it to the tops of those waves or not.

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Old 01-02-2012, 15:00   #36
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Re: Heavy Weather

Oh, I hope not. I aspire to be pretty conservative with the sea. No death wish here.

The first boat, Veronika, is a 65' fishing boat motoring straight into head seas. It looks dramatic, but the waves are not bigger than the vessel, and the few glimpses you get of the horizon, you can see pretty far. Again, it's hard to judge from the video, but you can sometimes even get that around the minor capes of California.

The navy ship is in much bigger weather. The waves are big enough to have that "canyon" feel, where on a small boat you can't see anything in the canyons except the wave on either side of you. But... though the waves are enormous, the tops look pretty mellow, they aren't breaking, they aren't so steep that there are waterfalls down the faces, or any of the stuff that, to me, means "survival storm." It's hard to compare a video from a helicopter to a memory from being on deck of a small boat, but I believe I've sailed in stuff like this, and the biggest thing I was nervous about was it getting worse-- of a wind shift making another set of waves build that add to the current train and make more random and chaotic seas that have a few truly dangerous ones hidden within the field. But the immediate present was not dangerous, though I was worried about breaking something by making a mistake with the sail handling (letting the roller jib unroll in too much wind, or something like that).

But I don't know. I am less experienced than many other people and want to learn more.

Especially after the tragic thing that happened to Triple Stars, where the 1 in 100 or 1 in 1000 wave caught them at the wrong moment. Not enough to destroy the boat, but just as bad. And I've read about similar things in accounts of high latitude voyages-- people get comfortable with the prevailing conditions, are happily sailing in an extended Southern Ocean gale for days on end, or whatever, and then get randomly smacked by a statistically rare wave-- pitchpoled or something.

So... That's what I wonder about. If the weather the navy ship is in would really be considered a "survival storm" not because every wave is dangerous, or even 10% of the waves are dangerous, but that maybe, for a small boat (such as mine), there's a chance for 1 wave in 24 hours that destroys the boat, unless you start treating it like a survival storm and break out the series drogue (or whatever your strategy is).

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Originally Posted by s/v Jedi View Post
With a small boat, you have to wonder if you're gonna make it to the tops of those waves or not.
Really? Maybe I really am midjudging the video from a helicopter. It just seems like all of the splashing is coming from the boat crashing through the waves. The waves that are not being crashed through tend to just have a little white at the tops. But maybe the scale of the enormous navy ship is throwing me off.
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Old 02-02-2012, 04:15   #37
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Re: Heavy Weather

I activated my epirb just watching this....
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Old 03-02-2012, 23:57   #38
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Re: Heavy Weather

The thing that makes it look worse or scary,

They are motor vessels going into the waves on the nose,

If they were going down wind, With following seas,

They would not make it onto Youtube because they would be so boring,

Its all in the perception,

Cheers, Brian,
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Old 04-02-2012, 01:30   #39
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Re: Heavy Weather

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The thing that makes it look worse or scary,

They are motor vessels going into the waves on the nose,

If they were going down wind, With following seas,

They would not make it onto Youtube because they would be so boring,

Its all in the perception,
Yes, that's what I am wondering... Here's a sailboat very happily going downwind in seas that, who knows, could be similiar to those in the first video:

Stu at the helm of Falcon GT on stormy Southern Ocean Seas

Which I feel would look positively boring if one was hove to or fore-reaching in that. Float up, float down, float up, float down... Maybe occasionally the small bits of white water on the tops of the waves would slap the boat and get everything soaked, but I feel that's about it. No danger.

I am self taught-- I just read a stack of books and then took off, so I may have developed the completely wrong idea of what the prevailing idea is. So I am really interested if better sailors would be more cautious and consider at least the second video somewhere on the order of a Survival Situation and time to start on your short list of storm strategies and not just... a wet experience that is mostly about being cautious and very careful-- not screw up and break something, stay double clipped in, crawl forward on deck with both hands holding onto whatever you can, and etc, but otherwise not dangerous at all.

Take a look at the video at 0:27, when they are hit on the beam by a small pokey part of a wave. And another time at 2:45. In the past I've interpreted that as wet, but that's it. Not dangerous at all. And my mental model of the prevailing conditions was that there was not a lot bigger than that, that things were relatively stable and uniform-- no real likelihood of a freak wave could make a knockdown, roll, or pitchpole... Or is a truly dangerous sea randomly in the cards in conditions like this, and it's time to start being very conservative and throw out the series drogue or whatever once you start to get the feeling that you are sailing in canyons and the tops of the waves are foamy and sometimes smacking the boat around a little -- is the real punch lurking nearby?
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Old 04-02-2012, 03:10   #40
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Re: Heavy Weather

I can't see the video on this internet link, but if its similar to the one I'm thinking off, the tugs in the video are Abielle Flandre and Abeille Bourbon, operated by Bourbon and contracted to French goverment to provide salvage and assiistance in the English Channel and the SW Approaches.
There is video footage of the Flandre taken from a helicopter where she is really punching into some heavy seas. She was on the way to provide assistance to a disabled tanker. (may have been the Prestige) and the helicopters were used to lift off the tanker crew.

Here's a couple of shots of some typical weather in the North Sea, took them from my tug, we we're towing/hove to with a rig behind us, the tug in the picture was on the same tow as us
Cruisers & Sailing Forums - nigel1's Album: My other boat - Picture

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Weather at the time was Force fair to frightening
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Old 04-02-2012, 04:52   #41
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Re: Heavy Weather

This was given to me by a friend. Definitely not weather to be sailing in on any size of ship!Click image for larger version

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Old 04-02-2012, 08:35   #42
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Re: Heavy Weather

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Originally Posted by msponer View Post
Yes, that's what I am wondering... Here's a sailboat very happily going downwind in seas that, who knows, could be similiar to those in the first video:

Stu at the helm of Falcon GT on stormy Southern Ocean Seas

Which I feel would look positively boring if one was hove to or fore-reaching in that. Float up, float down, float up, float down... Maybe occasionally the small bits of white water on the tops of the waves would slap the boat and get everything soaked, but I feel that's about it. No danger.

I am self taught-- I just read a stack of books and then took off, so I may have developed the completely wrong idea of what the prevailing idea is. So I am really interested if better sailors would be more cautious and consider at least the second video somewhere on the order of a Survival Situation and time to start on your short list of storm strategies and not just... a wet experience that is mostly about being cautious and very careful-- not screw up and break something, stay double clipped in, crawl forward on deck with both hands holding onto whatever you can, and etc, but otherwise not dangerous at all.

Take a look at the video at 0:27, when they are hit on the beam by a small pokey part of a wave. And another time at 2:45. In the past I've interpreted that as wet, but that's it. Not dangerous at all. And my mental model of the prevailing conditions was that there was not a lot bigger than that, that things were relatively stable and uniform-- no real likelihood of a freak wave could make a knockdown, roll, or pitchpole... Or is a truly dangerous sea randomly in the cards in conditions like this, and it's time to start being very conservative and throw out the series drogue or whatever once you start to get the feeling that you are sailing in canyons and the tops of the waves are foamy and sometimes smacking the boat around a little -- is the real punch lurking nearby?
Very good video, Thanks for putting it up.

What sail did you have up at the front or were you motoring in that Video,
Would you call them 4 metre waves.
As that would be what I have called a 4 metre wave on my trip,

I had my Auto pilot going, so I just sat at the back, enjoyed the ride, and let mine do its own thing, I only put my harness on if I went forward onto the deck,

I had about a third of the Genoa up, Mainly to keep me in a straight line in front of the waves,

I am also self taught, Not books tho, Just video's off the net,
I Googled, Sailing in very bad weather,
Taught me how to sail in bad weather, Which you do get out there, As you have shown,

I had probably about 10 days off it, Bad weather and very big waves in a total of 30 days at sea. only 2 or 3 days at a time tho,

I am asking so I can Get another persons opinion on the size of the waves, and also what sail or motor you had going at the time,

Thanks,
Brian.
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Old 04-02-2012, 09:12   #43
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Re: Heavy Weather

I don't think it was "msponer" in the video....

Clue: he talks of "they" not "me" or "we".....
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