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Old 04-01-2009, 17:46   #76
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Chuck,

I am sorry to see you go. I hope you can work out this with the mods and re-join the forum.

Chris
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Old 04-01-2009, 18:06   #77
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Sorry Chuck

I'm sorry to see Chuck go; great resource. That being said, when someone has to leave out of principal, then IMO they should walk away without a fuss. I'm a newB to CF and maybe I haven't earned the right to think my comments are sacrosanct. Or maybe I have thick enough skin to accept that, on the Internet, from time to time, they are not.

As for politics, if anyone here at CF believes they can sway someone politically, either way, with cheap shot remarks, then let them try. Usually it has the opposite affect. You preach to the choir and entrench the heretics. However, if it begins to turn ugly, then IMO you should take it outside. The bars which I've had the most fun in usually have the biggest bouncers. Leave CF to the cruisers.

Often the bouncers throw out the victim with the trouble maker. I think the CF Mods. and Adms. perform a thankless and necessary service. If you like the bar you'll come back and probably get a warm welcome. If you don't like it you'll find one that you like better.

Now I guess it's time to see how thick my skin really is.
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Old 04-01-2009, 19:03   #78
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With great defference to Gord and Hud with their far greater experience I tentatively offer this opinion as a moderator.

We moderators discussed in detail Chuck's decision. At the end of the day it's Chuck's decision. Everyone involved has asked Chuck to stay, both in public forum and in PM - enough said about that. It's up to Chuck.

Moderation of this board happens in private. When something happens we discuss in the mods room. We always send a PM to the people involved. Public moderation has proven to never work. The person being moderated gets defensive and it goes downhill rapidly.

We discussed this thread at length. Some of us voted to let this thread run its course. We feel periodicaly the members have to air out the lockers. Especially some of the senior members who have seen a few tide changes.

We don't normally allow links and "poaching" to other sites. We've left a few of them in this thread. I love this place and the reason I joined the mod team when asked is to help Andy and the senior moderators keep the flavor of this place the way I like it.

Like many of you I have tried other sites, this is the one that suits me best.

The Rules!

Just remember this is not a democracy. This is a site crafted to suit the owner of the site. Andy and Janet are active and give us guidance. Andy doesn't want to build another SA, or Sailnet or any other forum you care to mention. They already exist. It's CF flavor. I really, really hope you like it. One thing I admire is that this is absolutely the friendliest site on the net for new members. There is no right of passage or hierarchy. You show up on day one and if some d-head with 5,000 posts under his belt gives you a hard time we will jerk his chain - that's cool!

Censorship - The big C word is bandied about a lot. Yes this is the internet - you are welcome to start a blog and spout any sort of drivel you want to spout. Go ahead. However, here we have rules - primarily guns, politics, religion and people bashing. Plenty of places to go have those battles. Here there is no bill of rights or supreme court. We don't want to be unfriendly (just the opposite) but we will pull posts and topics that disturb the flow. Will we get it wrong once in a while? Yes - sorry - we're human too. But you can always challenge us in PM and it will be discussed.

Moderators - We moderate each other - a lot. If one of us gets in a poo fight the others will reel us in. Sometimes we (mods) will start talking guns, politics and religion and ask for ourselves to be bailed out. The key is that it all happens in the back room. Like I said this is not a democracy.

HTFU - This is one bit of SA that many of us could take to heart (hardnen the "ef" up) - You come to the internet with the intent of being offended and I guarantee you will be offended. If you happen to be a mix of Irish, Jewish, Afro American, Native American and an ecology lover, you will definitely find posts that are offensive. Ignore a few of them and move on. We aren't gonna change the world here on CF.

I'll probably get modded for this post but I had to throw in my dollar ninety eight worth. I am so happy that if I do get modded, the details will be between me and the mod team and we will not air it on the public forum - that's just that way it is and BTW - it's also in the rules...

Let's talk sailing and cruising again, shall we?
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Old 04-01-2009, 19:36   #79
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EX-Calif....HTFU.....
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Old 04-01-2009, 20:54   #80
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a man, convinced agaist his will, is of the same opinion, still

Just adding my .02 to the previous $1.98
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Old 05-01-2009, 03:04   #81
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My newbie opinion.

I’m here because I benefit from this forum.
I appreciate that it's free.

It’s not a democracy.
The owners/moderators can do what they want.

I can stay or leave.
Chuck left...I'll miss his input.

That's it!
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Old 05-01-2009, 03:56   #82
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generally I find this site much easier to trawl through than other sites. I feel that SA gets bogged down and off topic too easily with invective. As an international site, people need to understand different national perspectives. As a kiwi I let sheep jokes ride. As an Aussie I am probably too thick to understand.
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Old 05-01-2009, 07:07   #83
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On this issue I agree with the moderators, this is a cruising forum and not a place to air ones political and personal prejudices. (with the exception of anchors and multis )

Freedom of speech is a privilege that surprisingly few in the world can experience and it does come with responsibilities. Hiding behind the veil of anonymity as we all do, makes it all too easy to cross the line of decency.

In the heat of the moment, fueled by one Single Malt too many, it is all too easy to bang that Submit Reply button after composing a particularly "erudite" riposte.

This is why we have moderators.

So that in the morning when you wake up and stare in the mirror, the only thing you'll regret is that furry tongue and thumping pain in your head.
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Old 05-01-2009, 09:55   #84
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I don't always agree with the moderation. I do realize though it's A&J's ballpark, and they own the equipment too. I can play, or leave. I have had my share of PM's from the mods. We discuss it, and then I move on. Possibly it has to do with my thick skin as well as my thick head!

Chuck has strong opinions, and he got those, because that is what works for him. If I don't like his opinion. Then it's up to me to let it go. After all we all have our own opinions, and rules for ourselves. Chuck's knowledge is vast, and will surely be missed here by all.

I think at times the moderation is not evenly handed out. As stated though the mods are human too, and will error at times. I personally think the PM's can straighten out the difficulties. The knowledge is so immensly huge here. That you just have to let the small things go. Gathering this knowledge, and sharing the knowledge you have is after all the big picture here in the forum.......i2f
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Old 05-01-2009, 11:30   #85
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Originally Posted by imagine2frolic View Post
I don't always agree with the moderation. I do realize though it's A&J's ballpark, and they own the equipment too. I can play, or leave. I have had my share of PM's from the mods. We discuss it, and then I move on. Possibly it has to do with my thick skin as well as my thick head!

Chuck has strong opinions, and he got those, because that is what works for him. If I don't like his opinion. Then it's up to me to let it go. After all we all have our own opinions, and rules for ourselves. Chuck's knowledge is vast, and will surely be missed here by all.

I think at times the moderation is not evenly handed out. As stated though the mods are human too, and will error at times. I personally think the PM's can straighten out the difficulties. The knowledge is so immensly huge here. That you just have to let the small things go. Gathering this knowledge, and sharing the knowledge you have is after all the big picture here in the forum.......i2f
Good post.

Thick head is the cause.
Thick skin is the cure.
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Old 05-01-2009, 11:49   #86
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Originally Posted by Ex-Calif View Post
We discussed this thread at length. Some of us voted to let this thread run its course. We feel periodicaly the members have to air out the lockers. Especially some of the senior members who have seen a few tide changes.
IMHO, a wise decision


Quote:
Originally Posted by Ex-Calif View Post
Just remember this is not a democracy. This is a site crafted to suit the owner of the site. Andy and Janet are active and give us guidance.
I've banged heads with Andy and Janet more than most folks. Andy always listens and at times has been known to make an adjustment or tweak or two. Janet... not so much...

I don't know what set Chuck off, but I'm sure he had a good reason to be upset. I don't understand how PM's didn't solve the problem.

Chuck, this place won't be the same without you.
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Old 05-01-2009, 12:16   #87
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I can tell you that often, PM's escalate a personal conflict. It is unfortunate, but at times, our PM's to members about post moderation result in a defiant stance from the member. To Quote Chief Engineer,
Quote:
a man, convinced against his will, is of the same opinion, still
What we ask, and this seems to be at the heart of the issue, is that when we moderate a post, and we PM you to explain why we moderated that post, please understand it is not personal. Also understand we may not personally disagree with the post. But, in the interest of keeping this site the quality that we all enjoy, sometimes it is necessary to moderate things to keep them within the rules. What may seem to a member, from his own perspective, as a perfectly reasonable statement, must be looked at from the perspective of the whole membership. Nation bashing is a perfect example. I know how screwed up our country is, but this is one place I do not want others bad mouthing it. I may have a strong opinion about a political stance in my country, but it has nothing to do with the weather in the Indian Ocean.
Should your post be moderated in a way that you feel is personal, feel free to communicate with other moderators. We will discuss it, and if we agree that something was personal, we will address it. In the back room. If we determine that the moderation was not personal, we will gladly explain the reason behind the decision.
As a team, we are lucky to have a very diverse group of moderators and admins. We all have strengths in different areas, and share those strengths to ensure the moderation of this site is always as fair as possible. To a person, every one of us is open to feedback, and will take no offense at being asked to discuss a different perspective, nor will any of us be offended if you choose to express concerns about moderation to another admin or moderator. We ask only that you comply with two rules around this. Rule 1) do not discuss moderation on the public forums. Keep it through PM's, and 2) you accept that once the team has considered all of your discussion, you abide by that final decision.
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Old 05-01-2009, 12:22   #88
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My last .02

Untill this thread I had know idea how many of us have had censored posts...I have had several and have always felt a little picked on or singled out because of it..now Im finding out different...PM's never put that at rest for me..because I felt singled out..as reasons did not match compared to other posts left standing.

All we have is our feelings if we dont have data to change the input..I like data

This brings up in my mind the benefits of public notification that at post has been deleated and a reason given...It would also send a message to the whole thread that the jets need cooling in that thread...This is no more work then sending the PM to the offender in the first place or current postings by a moderator that the thread will be shut down if it stays its course.

The poster could then PM the moderation team to debate privately if they felt like it.

Just a thought..but as stated by others its not my sand box
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Old 05-01-2009, 12:41   #89
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We don't normally allow links and "poaching" to other sites. We've left a few of them in this thread.

If you guys trusted us, treated us like adults, and allowed us to edit our own posts, beyond a half hour, some of us would have gladly edited this out on the FIRST mention of it...

OPEN UP editing and I'll gladly post a LOT more here so that I can correct my spelling and grammatical errors I did not catch the first time or within the first half hour. There is a reason I have shared thousands of posts on other forums and only a few hundred here. In fact the crowd here missed a very good photo based post on heat exchangers, that I posted on four other forums, but not here. I chose NOT to post it here because of the lack of an edit feature. I be sure not to link to it. Those who know me know where they can find it....

Just last night I caught a mistake on SN. It was over a year old and re-surfaced when an old thread was posted to.
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Old 05-01-2009, 12:56   #90
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Quote:
Untill this thread I had know idea how many of us have had censored posts...I have had several and have always felt a little picked on or singled out because of it..now Im finding out different...PM's never put that at rest for me..because I felt singled out..as reasons did not match compared to other posts left standing.
I have been PM'd 4 times by Moderators. In each case I thought at first I was being picked on but I soon realized I was a little out of line, and I just accepted it and moved on.

I want to say two things.
First I want to thank the 4 Mods ... Gordmay, Alan Wheeler, Pblais and Ex-Calif for helping to keep this forum on an even keel.
And lastly thanks Chuck and Sean. But you guy need to grow a thicker skin.

Paul
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