Fuel at $1.50 per gallon

[anotherT34C]

A solar nanotube 'paint' for your sails or deck might not be too far in the future.

But using 'wind' to push a boat? Rediculous!

[Olive Page]

Oh I think with a bit of development it may catch on.

Not sure about hydrogen.

Heard a discussion on radio some time back, someone asked about maintenance and repair of hydrogen fuel cells.

The answer was you never need repairs - if they go wrong all thats left is a small crater in the road.

Diesel suddenly seemed much cheaper somehow.

[David M]

Fuel cells themselves are very reliable (electrolysis in reverse). It is the storage of hydrogen that is the problem. Hydrogen takes a lot more space, even highly compressed, than diesel or gasoline for the same heat content. As far as safety goes, hydrogen does not burn any faster than any other vaporized fuel. The Hindenburg gave hydrogen a bad reputation. It is the skin of the Hindenburg that ignited so quickly being made of some of the same very flammable components as rocket fuel although there is some debate about this.

LZ 129 Hindenburg - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[David_Old_Jersey]

The answer is........get a Sweep / Scull.





How to Scull

[encore]

There is a new process to produce biodiesel that was researched by the U of M that shows great promise. The first plant in the nation is being built in Isanti, MN that should output 3 million gallons by early fall. It converts algae, feedstock, and other biproducts and uses far less water in the conversion than, for instance, corn ethanol. The developers say that eventually it will be able to produce it on the farm. Farmers in this sub-zero are having no problems running 20% soy for winter snow plowing and some have run 100%. Problems were encountered with Canola oil and that seems to have been discontinued. Google algae ethanol, McGyan process, or U of M or Augsburg College. There is much information available.

[Richkd]

I was once asked how do you make that boat go? Response: You stand at the rear (stern) of the boat and BLOW HARD. More Blow Hards on the boat the faster it goes. lol Better then solar , eh?

[Olive Page]

I'm sure this lady would not give anyone a bad reputation

[Alan Wheeler]

The hydrogen fuel cell could be pretty cool, but as you eluded, Hydrogen is not an energy source, but rather a way to store energy. And, not very much energy at that. Every single Fuel we have is stored energy. The differences is in how the energy is released, how much energy is released and how much pollution is produced in the process.

[elcubanito]

Hey Chuck,

I understand where you're comming from but I think its the worng approach. I live in Los Angeles....gas prices up to 4 USD/Gallon.

Almost a year ago I sold my apartment and my car. Now I live 1 block away from my job....which is located in a shopping area that has all I need (groceries, restaurants,starbucks). Yes, I do own a bike and use public transportation.

My desicion had nothing to do with oil prices going up. It had to do with the fact that I couldn't go to sleep peacefully knowing that my car pumped CO2 at the rate of 33 pounds/hour into the atmosphere.

I'm also aware that we as human beings ARE dependent on oil by means of electricity. No matter how hard you try (unless you completelly go native) you will always be at the mercy of the oil companies.

I think people should using less fossil fuels because it has a detrimental effect on the environment....not because its burning a hole in their pockets.

The same happens with endangered species. Locals don't care where some silly turtle lives or not. BUT, they protect them because they make $ off the silly tourists who flock in year after year to take pictures of said endangered species.

BUT then, tourism = more oil consumption (airlines,cars,SUVS) So what are you gonna do? Kill the turtles?

[Ex-Calif]

Originally Posted by David_Old_Jersey

The answer is........get a Sweep / Scull.





How to Scull

Looks like a long freakin' way to Tahiti in that!

I saw a documentary about the English Coastline - it's a series - I think it's actually called Coast.

I view documentaries with some scepticism but apparently one of the northernmost islands claims to be energy self sufficient. They have wind power and crack hydrogen and there are cars that are powered by the hydrogen.

The early answers will be to regulate cars in the big cities. Even as an American, I am astonished that we keep buying bigger cars and driving them solo to work.

Being from LA, I can see there becoming some sort of regulation on cubic centimeter of displacement per passenger rules or something for the LA basin. We shouldn't be driving beemer 7's and hummers. We should be driving Smart Cars or something like the new car that Tata is making.

The "big" cars could be licensed for weekends in the exclusion zones and you could log onto the internet and pay a "daily" waiver fee if you have to drive the beast during the week.

Actually, that sounds kinda Singaporean - LOL. Maybe I've been here too long.

And to keep it on a boating thread - The price of fuel is inelastic for cars. We'll pay anything to keep our cars rolling. The price of fuel for power boats is another matter. Especially considering the abysmal efficiency of pushing the average power boat hull through the water.

Quotes of 400-500 for a day of gas out on the water is pretty dumb...

I think I'll go sailing...

[anotherT34C]

Americans don't like to be told what to do or think by authority figures... only by celebrities and pundits.

This is why I want to make electricity cheap and abundant (you know how). The rest the market will handle. If electricity is cheap, everyone WILL drive a plug-in hybrid.

Cheap gas is over.

[Robertcateran]

I was looking at cracking water for H2 and then using it to lift a kite nice and high to catch some of the wind up there. The arithmetic seems feasible. It wouldn't matter if the hydrogen slowly leaked out once it was up there. I do think there is a future for hydrogen as a fuel storage on a boat,
Robert

[Alan Wheeler]

car pumped CO2 at the rate of 33 pounds/hour into the atmosphere.

How do you produce that much??

If electricity is cheap, everyone WILL drive a plug-in hybrid.

The price of electricity is not the issue with hybrids

[David_Old_Jersey]

Originally Posted by Ex-Calif

Looks like a long freakin' way to Tahiti in that!

Tahiti, yer need a bigger sweep then and maybe an Admiral with a strong arm (dual use technology? )

Over here we are not exactly self sufficient in energy and apparently do have one of the highest per capita car ownership ratios.....but most of our electric is "clean", cos' we get it from the French - a couple of miles up the coast is a great big nuclear power station and south is a tidal barrage.....given the French do not have big oil reserves they long ago decided to go nuclear (and a bit of tidal).

IMO the fact that it may / or may not be totally competitive against oil is more than offset by the fact that they do not send large cheques abroad to get their energy, and instead spend the money within their own economy - including good quality jobs, which are never going to India / China......not to say that they do not have a National Oil Company that also likes a bit of rape & pillage same as the all the others

Apparently we are on the list for consideration by Mercedes for testing Electric Smart Cars .....bearing in mind we are only 9 x 5 miles (population 90,000+).....should be quite easy to instal basic infrastructure to support......I would seriously consider buying one, not for the Green Benefits (I'm a non-beleiver), but for cheap running costs and cos' they would be cool

[anotherT34C]

Originally Posted by Alan Wheeler

The price of electricity is not the issue with hybrids

Plug-in hybrids. Fully electric for short trips (like commuting to work). Cheap clean electricity would make them more attractive for sure.