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Old 23-04-2008, 01:04   #61
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. If you tossed in $1,000 bucks in 2004 you'd have about $55k to spend on oil today.
That is certainly my strategy (oil, coal, something ???) with the $60,000 I saved in rig and sails for my powercat.

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Old 23-04-2008, 05:33   #62
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Nup. Even that is going to become a Dinosaur. Fusion will be the way of the future. About 30 maybe forty years from now. The first Fussion Reactor is being built right now in France. Well not the first. But the first that will actually produce more energy than it takes to make it. It will produce about 500MegW with about 50MegW input. It will take about 10yrs to complete the plant. The vision is they will then take another 10yrs to work through all the issues that will arise and then about another 10yrs to see a full scale commercial power plant built. The biggest hurdle so far has been money. A budget of US$56Billion dollars is being sunk into it. Several countries have pulled together to finance the project.
ITER is consistently at the very top priority for funding in the US. The problem isn't primarily one of money, it's one of time and engineering. I can go into some pretty gory details (I studied some ITER plasma physics in grad school) if you want to start another thread! That's not to say the problems are insurmountable, but... You should probably expect even after it is made to work, there will be a significant period of time before it is economically competitive. The primary advantage fusion has over fission, I'm sorry to say, is one of PR. Fission works right now (and presently meets 20% of US demand with only ~100 plants. impressive!) is very cost competitive, is clean, and has been chugging away safely and efficiently in the West for a good 50+ years now.
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Old 23-04-2008, 05:56   #63
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I blame hedge funds and commodity speculation. Those jerks inflated the housing market, inflated food and energy and made a killing before everything tanked and the average person was left holding the bag.
SS I agree with you even though I sense there are many here who will say NO. Wall street is able to affect everybody with their profit requirements and the sheep have no choice but to pay the ransom. or do we? my 30 HP yanmar does not burn much fuel but it pains me to no end when I pay double the amount that I should. we are trying to sell our house .. wish me luck.
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Old 23-04-2008, 06:41   #64
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ITER is consistently at the very top priority for funding in the US. The problem isn't primarily one of money, it's one of time and engineering. I can go into some pretty gory details (I studied some ITER plasma physics in grad school) if you want to start another thread! That's not to say the problems are insurmountable, but... You should probably expect even after it is made to work, there will be a significant period of time before it is economically competitive. The primary advantage fusion has over fission, I'm sorry to say, is one of PR. Fission works right now (and presently meets 20% of US demand with only ~100 plants. impressive!) is very cost competitive, is clean, and has been chugging away safely and efficiently in the West for a good 50+ years now.
And how many years of uranium 235 do we have. Unless we go to fast breeder technology there is not enough to fuel the worlds energy requirements. There is also quite a start up time. There is plenty of good solar technology with storage, if we want to go that way, and going for greater efficiency would save oodles. A well designed house uses less than a tenth of the energy of most houses on the market.
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Old 23-04-2008, 06:55   #65
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the sheep have no choice but to pay the ransom. or do we?
.
You can go into one shop and buy something for one price and go into another and buy the same thing cheaper.

You could do the same with living in general by moving to another country and living your same (or much better) lifestyle for 1/3rd of the cost.

Diesel included

We are Yachties, we can travel the globe and take our accomodation with us, unlike the rest of those land based suckers.




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Old 23-04-2008, 07:57   #66
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We are Yachties, we can travel the globe and take our accomodation with us, unlike the rest of those land based suckers
when i said sheep i WAS referring to the land based suckers. traveling the globe looking for cheap fuel ain't gonna happen. as far as i can tell nobody has altered their fuel consumption habits. with most i think the automobile is still an addiction but for many it is a necessity for survival.
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Old 23-04-2008, 07:57   #67
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We are Yachties, we can travel the globe and take our accomodation with us, unlike the rest of those land based suckers.
Dave
Sounds like good reason to summer in Venezuela.
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Old 23-04-2008, 11:55   #68
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In Australia most pay $93 usd for a gallon of really bad rum
Imperial gallons?
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Old 23-04-2008, 12:09   #69
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I just saw one of the talking heads on CNN palavering about oil prices, and this 'expert' was saying that speculation has driven the prices up to the current $113 a barrel. He said that supply and demand only acounted for $70-80 a barrel.
As for the comment "if oil prices were artificially high, there would be a glut of oil on the market" I think the opposite is true. When the housing market was booming and houses were selling for more than they were worth, the value was artificially high BECAUSE there was no glut of homes on the market.
I think Chuck's idea has merit, not the part about singleing out one or another oil company, but the idea of letting people know that we won't pay more. As soon as the news is reporting 'Americans are driving less', 'people are changing their driving habits', 'high oil prices are having an effect' then you'll see the speculators start running and prices drop back down to a reasonable level. However, if they think that we'll just keep on driving the way we always have, then the price will just keep going up, up, up.
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Old 23-04-2008, 13:36   #70
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At least here in NZ, we don't get into our vehicles and go driving just to use up the tank of fuel for the hell of it. Most of us have to use our Vehicles because we need to. So the lunacey of not buying fuel to make it difficult for the oil companies will not work. Transport is simply not going to stop just because we all get together and make a stand. It ain't goign to happen. People make their incomes based on transport. From Truck drivers, Bus Drivers, Taxi operators, through to Consumers that require delivery. The % of people that can afford to not fill their car is really very very small.
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Old 23-04-2008, 13:47   #71
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Following up on the theme of "driving less" I have been carrying my groceries home in my back pack for several years now. I haven't noticed to many others doing that (a few) and I haven't noticed much of an increase in the number of walkers since the price of gas has gone over a dollar a liter. I haven't noticed a drop in the cars parked in front of the super market or a decrease in traffic along the way. It will take more than increased fuel prices to change the attitude of most people. It will take a full fledged depression.

gonesail, I wish you luck. I heard 2 interviews last week about the housing market in the US. One was with a locksmith who is running to keep up with business which right now is locking people out of their homes. The other was with a Real Estate agent who works with Canadians buying in the US. He basically said that in his opinion the housing "correction" had a long way to go before it bottoms out and that if you still wanted to buy, low ball. It's a buyers market.
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Old 23-04-2008, 14:35   #72
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At least here in NZ, we don't get into our vehicles and go driving just to use up the tank of fuel for the hell of it.
Maybe the concept of a pleasurable drive is just an American traditon, I don't know. I grew up never giving the cost of fuel much consideration at all. If something interesting was going on in a city 150 miles away, we hopped in the car and went and didn't worry about the fuel cost. I used to make the 1000 mile drive from FL to VA to visit my family twice a year and felt the $100 gas cost was no big deal. Now it's almost $400 and I might as well fly. So yea, I've cut way back on my driving and have definetly changed my habits to buy less fuel. Sure, we still have to go to work and conduct business, but I find myself parking my truck and borrowing my wifes car(better mileage) anytime I have to go more than 20 miles away. A lot of things that I used to prefer to purchase hands on from a nearby retailer, I now think "damn, it will cost $20 to drive over there and back, I might as well buy on line and have it shipped to me."
I'm doing everything I can to buy less gas, including buying a sailboat!
And for those who don't think it's happening, I sold my house in Florida 2 months ago.
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Old 23-04-2008, 15:32   #73
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Speaking for the UK the prices are out of date.

Petrol (gasoline) is at present 1.10 GBP - say $2.10 A LITRE

Not much under $10 a gallon.

This is made up of the cost of the petrol

+ excise duty (tax)

+ Value added tax on the cost AND the duty.

We have the delight of paying tax on the tax that we pay.

I've just returned from Oman where petrol costs a little under 0,10 a litre - less than 10% of the UK price.

OK Oman has lots of oil so it would be cheaper - except

To buy a bottle (1 litre) of water in the UK also costs around 1.00

In Oman where there is virtually no water it costs about 0.12

So who is to blame?

I start with the politicians who see petrol as source of tax revenue.

Then the oil companies - If Shell can put petrol in the pumps in Oman at <0.10 a litre The price should not increase by a factor of 5-6 to put it in the pumps in the UK

Don't forget that they control both ends of the market - they are the ones who get the $130 a barrel and then the sell to themselves for refining and distribution. Simple evidence - just look at their profits.

Trouble is all this talk of global warming and the end of the world nonsense gives both government and oil companies the excuse - In the UK now if you argue for cheaper fuel you are cast as some sort of potential mass murderer.

I sometimes wonder if the world has gone crazy or whether its just me
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Old 23-04-2008, 20:23   #74
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And how many years of uranium 235 do we have.
Millions. Uranium is actually a fairly common ore, and the often quoted 'remaining stocks' are actually 'remaining known stocks at a given extraction price'. Also, reprocessing adds a factor of 10 to the life of the fuel. And in addition to uranium, there is thorium which is three times yet more common. The human species will be extinct long before we can run out of nuclear fission fuel.
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Old 23-04-2008, 21:36   #75
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Millions. Uranium is actually a fairly common ore, and the often quoted 'remaining stocks' are actually 'remaining known stocks at a given extraction price'. Also, reprocessing adds a factor of 10 to the life of the fuel. And in addition to uranium, there is thorium which is three times yet more common. The human species will be extinct long before we can run out of nuclear fission fuel.
And where do we get the fuel to run the machinery for this extraction? What sets the price of extraction?

Using hot rocks is probably the cleanest way of using fission. The radioactive decay in those big lumps of rock beneath our feet can provide a heap of energy. Yes , theoretically, we can even extract uranium out of sea water for a net energy gain. The cost of setting up the processing would not be cheap, and has a finite life. In contrast, solar thermal is becoming cheaper, has already developed viable storage, and requires fewer high tolerance parts, elaborate technology or security issues : the reactor is well out of reach of terrorists and the waste products are that of normal building construction. We are already using fusion and , thankfully, the big reactor is just the right distance away to be comfortable and still transmit plenty of energy by electromagnetic radiation but the problem is we are rapidly using up our easily transportable storage of fusion energy- hence the rapid rise in the price of oil- and we have built our civilisation to be dependent on it
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