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Old 27-04-2008, 20:25   #136
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True, CO2 is heavier than air; but gravity has little effect on the diffusion of gases.
The empirical fact is that CO2 is uniformly mixed through (nearly) all altitudes of the atmosphere.

The only thing lighter then the atmosphere is the politians promises to do something about anything.( #1 source of global pollution). Lighter then that you'd have to go to LA. (rotflmaof)

The only thing denser then the atmosphere are the mutitudes that are oxygen deprived enough to believe, anything.
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Old 28-04-2008, 03:45   #137
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Yes, they're called error bars and they are not terribly wide.

Robert, do you have a good reference on the coral reef data (I'm not doubting you, I'm curious)? Preferably something at the freshman lecture level, but I'll muddle through whatever you might have.
Try this paper by Ove for a start Science 14 December 2007: Vol. 318. no. 5857, pp. 1737 - 1742 DOI: 10.1126/science.1152509 Prev | Table of Contents | Next Review Coral Reefs Under Rapid Climate Change and Ocean Acidification O. Hoegh-Guldberg,1* P. J. Mumby,2 A. J. Hooten,3 R. S. Steneck,4 P. Greenfield,5 E. Gomez,6 C. D. Harvell,7 P. F. Sale,8 A. J. Edwards,9 K. Caldeira,10 N. Knowlton,11 C. M. Eakin,12 R. Iglesias-Prieto,13 N. Muthiga,14 R. H. Bradbury,15 A. Dubi,16 M. E. Hatziolos
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Old 28-04-2008, 04:34   #138
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Did a little checking. An Exxon investment of $1000 in April 2004 is now worth $2,209.68. A 120% return, which is certainly nothing to sneeze at, and better than the BP return of 80%. However, 1.2 times your money is FAR short of 55 times your money. I certainly agree with the rest of his statements though.

I love being dramatic - Of course you are right the stock price is up from about 38 to about 93.

Still not a bad place to store the boat kitty over the last 5 years.
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Old 28-04-2008, 11:52   #139
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I love being dramatic - Of course you are right the stock price is up from about 38 to about 93.


.
There is a big difference between drama and an untruth (lie).

I know this is the internet and all but...........oh well.............another on the list.

Just glad this site has very few telling "untruths".

It is the best............still.
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Old 28-04-2008, 13:12   #140
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Just glad this site has very few telling "untruths".
And how do we know that statement is true? ;-) :-)
Or the other brain teaser, "every thing I say is a lie"
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Old 28-04-2008, 13:23   #141
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And how do we know that statement is true? ;-) :-)
Because of you.
This forum is the best because there is little BS going on.
If it comes up it is called out by you or other moderators.
If not them then someone else with knowledge.
It does not take long.

Thank you for that.
I appreciate it.
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Old 29-04-2008, 02:41   #142
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There is a big difference between drama and an untruth (lie).

I know this is the internet and all but...........oh well.............another on the list.

Just glad this site has very few telling "untruths".

It is the best............still.
There is also a lot of difference between a lie and a math mistake.

I don't know if you are insinuating that I lied or not....
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Old 29-04-2008, 04:31   #143
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Point out and correct my errors, argue with my conclusions; but do not cast aspersions upon my (nor anyone's) character!
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Old 29-04-2008, 07:21   #144
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Gord, this is simply what happens when positive (as opposed to normative) issues are discussed in a Socratic debate format rather than a scientific review format. We can post data and analysis, but rather than reaching a positive consensus, since the debate is seen as a normative one, the 'side' against the science will invariably turn to ad-hominem or other fallacies, which are seen as legitimate tactics.

The general public is very familiar with Socratic debate (thanks to out legal system and political format) but not so familiar at all with review consensus (where there are no 'sides'). Scientists and engineers who are used to working in review consensus are often quite ineffective once the debate is cast as normative.
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Old 29-04-2008, 07:56   #145
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Gord, this is simply what happens when positive (as opposed to normative) issues are discussed in a Socratic debate format rather than a scientific review format. We can post data and analysis, but rather than reaching a positive consensus, since the debate is seen as a normative one, the 'side' against the science will invariably turn to ad-hominem or other fallacies, which are seen as legitimate tactics.

The general public is very familiar with Socratic debate (thanks to out legal system and political format) but not so familiar at all with review consensus (where there are no 'sides'). Scientists and engineers who are used to working in review consensus are often quite ineffective once the debate is cast as normative.
Even though I understand this, I've finally reached a point in my life were the only Socratic debate I want to get into is whether to use a 3/8 or 1/2" drive.
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Old 29-04-2008, 08:33   #146
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Although my supplication to avoid personal aspersions may be viewed as a normative statement (a value judgement of what “should” be), let me remind everyone that, as an Administrator, my statements on the subject of deportment must be viewed as absolutely positive.
I’m not seeking to engage in a debate about the merits of gentlemanly bahaviour, nor a thoughtful Socratic exchange, nor Platonic dialogue about the various standards of behaviour.
For the obtuse; I’m telling everyone how it is, and how it will remain.
We treat each other with respect, at all times.
Those who cannot abide, get a vacation.
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Old 29-04-2008, 08:44   #147
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I know I'm a bit obtuse, it comes with age. But I'm on a diet.
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Old 29-04-2008, 09:50   #148
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Language isn't just a means of communication, it's a fine art. And that's positive.

Oh and yeah... fuel's expensive too.
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Old 29-04-2008, 09:54   #149
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this in the news today: BP and Shell post big profits in era of record oil prices. And we know Exxon reported record profits earlier in the year. make of this what you will .. I think these monopolies are almost out of control.
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Old 29-04-2008, 10:16   #150
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Oil companies are always going to charge exactly as much for their product as the market will bear. That's their job, and we ought to never expect otherwise. There may not seem like much competition within oil, but there is competition to oil. You just have to be willing to pay for it.
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