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Old 01-03-2012, 15:38   #61
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Re: Florida Water Cops Ticketed Me

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The problem won't arise when the cops stop you. It will arise when you get run over by some idiot and try to collect on the insurance. Then they will ask "did you have CG certified lights?" If not, they won't pay because they will say everything was your fault
The probability of a problem is low, but this is exactly the issue. The lights arrived a few days ago and the quality seems to be good, but I think I'll only use these until I find something that actually complies with the rules. The combination red and green covers only 180 degrees (90-degrees for each color) instead of 225 degrees (112.5 degrees for each color). I also suspect (but don't have the means to prove) that the colors and brightness are non-compliant too. The all-around white light is probably OK - harder to screw that up. Pretty shameful for a company that manufactures "real" nav lights. Why would they even bother making lights that are not legal anywhere? I wunder what their liability would be if there was an incident as they are marketed as "navigation lights"
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Old 01-03-2012, 16:20   #62
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Re: Florida Water Cops Ticketed Me

I'm so thankful that I completed my cruising experience before the world went insanly mad.
This is but one more example why cruisiers from around the world seldom visit the US.
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Old 01-03-2012, 16:46   #63
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Re: Florida Water Cops Ticketed Me

Tripod-
" I also suspect (but don't have the means to prove) that the colors and brightness are non-compliant too."
Sure you do. Rashly assuming you don't have a major vision impairment. With brightness, the regs only require that the lights be bright enough TO BE SEEN at the stated distance. So you drop a friend off a mile away, or two miles away, as confirmed on a chart or by GPS. Call your friend on the cell phone or a radio and ask "Can you see my light? How about now?" and make sure the light they are seeing is YOUR LIGHT. If they can see it, that's the defined "can be seen at a distance of" test, nothing fancier needed.

As to color, yes, in theory you need special equipment to measure the color spectrum of the lights. In practice? Green is green and red is red, and anything that looks good enough for a traffic light or a six year old to identfy the color, will be good enough to keep watercops happy. This is not a matter of "my headlights aren't white, they're yellowish" this is a matter of red and green, yes or no. The big Crayola box is close enough to the reference standards.

"Why would they even bother making lights that are not legal anywhere?" They might BE legal. And they might still be perfectly useful for non-navigable waters, where COLREGS don't apply, the USCG doesn't apply, and "Hey, at least I got some lights" beats no lights at all.

You got one Mark I Eyeball around? OK, then you've got the equipment to perform some compliance testing.

Still worried? Well, who's to say those gen-you-whine certified approved brand name fixtures you see in the store aren't cheap non-compliant counterfeits from China? Oh yeah, let's toss that hat in the ring as well, because everything from oil filters and spark plugs to handbags and wristwatches also comes in counterfeit. Including some of the big-league baseball hats ands sports jerseys you see EVERY day in EVERY venue.

If you want absolute security...you're going to need lab test equipment. Starting with the Mark-I Eyeball.
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Old 01-03-2012, 16:55   #64
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Re: Florida Water Cops Ticketed Me

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I'm so thankful that I completed my cruising experience before the world went insanly mad.
This is but one more example why cruisiers from around the world seldom visit the US.
The only place you have to worry about this most of the time is Florida where there are dozens of overlapping policing jurisdictions on the water, all with go-fast boats and personnel they have to keep busy by doing something, anything. That means they are out in force looking for any possible infraction, like a dinghy with no lights or registration, or a boat not showing an anchor light. You can cruise all summer in Maine without even seeing a local police boat on the water. Same in a lot of other states.
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Old 01-03-2012, 17:02   #65
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Re: Florida Water Cops Ticketed Me

Sadly it isn't just Florida, they've just been, ah, leaders.

I think it has been two years now since NJ invoked a new law, if you're driving a boat with an engine in NJ waters, you'll need a *NJ* certification or the equivalent from your home state to prove you are a competent boater. If your home state doesnt' have any such requirement...gee, in theory you'd need the one from NJ instead. Like that's gonna happen if you don't live there.

Some legislators just need to be slapped silly. Repeatedly.
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Old 01-03-2012, 17:17   #66
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Re: Florida Water Cops Ticketed Me

Ahh let me tell ya Its not just FL that writes tickets for no lights on a powerd dingy !! I recieved one in CA and not southen CA either!! and My brother got on in Bremerton WA !! so the coasties get ya when they see ya !! just my 2 cents Bob and Connie
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Old 01-03-2012, 19:17   #67
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Re: Florida Water Cops Ticketed Me

Well my last post wasn't meant to be a troll, but some of you get cranked up pretty easily. Anyway, I'm not actually that concerned that the lights are 100% compliant. I'd much rather have them than not. I guess I was just ranting a little about all the crap products I've come across lately and the lights were just a rediculous example. And since we're stuck in FL for the next 5 years, we try to follow the rules and not be noticed by anybody with a citation book . . . oh wait, crap, I have a citation book . . . never mind.

I too have cruised when things were a lot simpler, but the fact is there's a lot more of us out there now and especially in places like FL and the ICW, most of the rules are needed.

BTW, I worry less about these things the further I am from the US. Common sense rules.
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Old 01-03-2012, 19:54   #68
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Re: Florida Water Cops Ticketed Me

The only problem with that Tripod, is theres a lot of folks out there without common sense !! a bunch of them in fact !! hence all the posts about improper anchoring !! LOL Just sayin Bob and Connie
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Old 02-03-2012, 12:16   #69
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Re: Florida Water Cops Ticketed Me

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The only problem with that Tripod, is theres a lot of folks out there without common sense !! a bunch of them in fact !! hence all the posts about improper anchoring !! LOL Just sayin Bob and Connie
LOL Agree 100%. I was referring to OUR common sense that rules . . . sometimes it tells us to just up-hook and move, and other times it tells us to sit tight and enjoy the "entertainment". Either way, we don't let them spoil our mood. Although I have considered paintballs for the jetskis. Bob & Judy
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Old 04-03-2012, 14:32   #70
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Re: Florida Water Cops Ticketed Me

I'm going to take a wild guess here and say you got the ticket during the day.
I say this because I live in Florida and routinely go out at night and have not seen any coast guard boats around. I have seen the local police at firework displays etc.... But even they to go in at night unless needed at city events.
My cousin said he almost got ticketed here at the Skyway bridge sitting and fishing for not having PFD's within date. I remember in years past the Coast guard or like they are called now Homeland Security never bothered you when sitting and fishing. But with the economy the way it is and every and I do mean Every Municipality needing funds I'm afraid it is only going to get worse.
Me myself I went to Walmart and got solar lights and used transparent red,black and green tape to make mine. I use a solar light in a piece of PVC to lift the stern light.All three fit into it's own ubolt and work great and are rechargeable. They last a really long time, are bright Led's and I'm thinking about using them on my boat.
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Old 04-03-2012, 14:57   #71
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Re: Florida Water Cops Ticketed Me

"ticketed...for not having PFD's within date."

Since when or where do PFDs have to be dated like flares?
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Old 04-03-2012, 17:01   #72
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Re: Florida Water Cops Ticketed Me

They "Homeland security" aka the "Coast Guard" said PFD's are only good for ten years. Not my view but theirs according to my cousin who has been boating both power and sail his whole life here in the Bay area. How does styrofoam deteriorate?
But according to them I guess it does. I was told the same thing when they came aboard my boat in Clearwater Harbor. Another fine tourist trap and money making area. It's all about the money these days.
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Old 04-03-2012, 17:37   #73
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Re: Florida Water Cops Ticketed Me

Well...I hope you took down their names and ID numbers, because a casual glance suggests they need to be sent back for retraining.
"A BOATER’S GUIDE TO THE
FEDERAL REQUIREMENTS
FOR RECREATIONAL BOATS"

the official pamphlet that the USCG publishes for boaters every year? Has several pages on PFDs and no mention at all of expiry dating, just that they be of good and serviceable condition.

Which is what I've always been taught, most recently about 2 years ago in a standard Power Squadrons day course to update a current "Yeah, he can operate a motor boat in these waters" certificate.

The USCG's own web page on PFDs echoes the same things at:
USCG: PFD Selection, Use, Wear & Care of PFDs
no mention of expiry dating.

And 33 CFR 175, Title 33--Navigation and Navigable Waters

CHAPTER I--COAST GUARD, DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND SECURITY (CONTINUED) PART 175--EQUIPMENT REQUIREMENTS
Subpart B_Personal Flotation Devices

Sec. 175.21 Condition; size and fit; approval marking.

No person may use a recreational boat unless each PFD required by

[[Page 849]]

Sec. 175.15 of this part or allowed by Sec. 175.17 of this part is:
(a) In serviceable condition as provided in Sec. 175.23;

Again, echoes the same thing. No mention of dates or expiry, they just have to be "serviceable".

Wouldn't be the first time someone was misinforming or mistraining an entire district. or worse.

Unless the CFR changed awful damned recently and someone forgot to send me the memo. Wouldn't be the first time for that, either. Still...if they can't cite the code, they're bluffing.

In, ah, other places, other uniforms are required to carry certain codes and regulations in their vehicle, to make Real Damn Sure that they can in fact cite correct and exact regulations.

I know of one "officer and gentlemen" who got reamed out real good by a District Commander, in person, for threatening to arrest a race committee unless they "moved out of the channel" in an area where there was in fact no channel. Except in that officer's mind. So don't be afraid to make a diplomatic enquiry up channels.
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Old 04-03-2012, 18:38   #74
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Re: Florida Water Cops Ticketed Me

Quote:
Originally Posted by hellosailor View Post
Well...I hope you took down their names and ID numbers, because a casual glance suggests they need to be sent back for retraining.
"A BOATER’S GUIDE TO THE
FEDERAL REQUIREMENTS
FOR RECREATIONAL BOATS"

the official pamphlet that the USCG publishes for boaters every year? Has several pages on PFDs and no mention at all of expiry dating, just that they be of good and serviceable condition.

Which is what I've always been taught, most recently about 2 years ago in a standard Power Squadrons day course to update a current "Yeah, he can operate a motor boat in these waters" certificate.

The USCG's own web page on PFDs echoes the same things at:
USCG: PFD Selection, Use, Wear & Care of PFDs
no mention of expiry dating.

And 33 CFR 175, Title 33--Navigation and Navigable Waters

CHAPTER I--COAST GUARD, DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND SECURITY (CONTINUED) PART 175--EQUIPMENT REQUIREMENTS
Subpart B_Personal Flotation Devices

Sec. 175.21 Condition; size and fit; approval marking.

No person may use a recreational boat unless each PFD required by

[[Page 849]]

Sec. 175.15 of this part or allowed by Sec. 175.17 of this part is:
(a) In serviceable condition as provided in Sec. 175.23;

Again, echoes the same thing. No mention of dates or expiry, they just have to be "serviceable".

Wouldn't be the first time someone was misinforming or mistraining an entire district. or worse.

Unless the CFR changed awful damned recently and someone forgot to send me the memo. Wouldn't be the first time for that, either. Still...if they can't cite the code, they're bluffing.

In, ah, other places, other uniforms are required to carry certain codes and regulations in their vehicle, to make Real Damn Sure that they can in fact cite correct and exact regulations.

I know of one "officer and gentlemen" who got reamed out real good by a District Commander, in person, for threatening to arrest a race committee unless they "moved out of the channel" in an area where there was in fact no channel. Except in that officer's mind. So don't be afraid to make a diplomatic enquiry up channels.

Wasn't me but my cousin at the time.

But your are preaching to the choir my friend.
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Old 04-03-2012, 18:42   #75
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Re: Florida Water Cops Ticketed Me

Here is what it says on serviceable condintion. No expiration date defined.

Title 33: Navigation and Navigable Waters

CHAPTER I: COAST GUARD, DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND SECURITY (CONTINUED)

SUBCHAPTER S: BOATING SAFETY

PART 175: EQUIPMENT REQUIREMENTS

Subpart B: Personal Flotation Devices

175.23 - Serviceable condition.

A PFD is considered to be in serviceable condition for purposes of ? 175.21(a) only if the following conditions are met:

(a) No PFD may exhibit deterioration that could diminish the performance of the PFD, including?

(1) Metal or plastic hardware used to secure the PFD on the wearer that is broken, deformed, or weakened by corrosion;

(2) Webbings or straps used to secure the PFD on the wearer that are ripped, torn, or which have become separated from an attachment point on the PFD; or

(3) Any other rotted or deteriorated structural component that fails when tugged.

(b) In addition to meeting the requirements of paragraph (a) of this section, no inherently buoyant PFD, including the inherently buoyant components of a hybrid inflatable PFD, may exhibit?

(1) Rips, tears, or open seams in fabric or coatings, that are large enough to allow the loss of buoyant material;

(2) Buoyant material that has become hardened, non-resilient, permanently compressed, waterlogged, oil-soaked, or which shows evidence of fungus or mildew; or

(3) Loss of buoyant material or buoyant material that is not securely held in position.

(c) In addition to meeting the requirements of paragraph (a) of this section, an inflatable PFD, including the inflatable components of a hybrid inflatable PFD, must be equipped with?

(1) Except as provided in paragraph (d) of this section, a properly armed inflation mechanism, complete with a full inflation medium cartridge and all status indicators showing that the inflation mechanism is properly armed;

(2) Inflatable chambers that are all capable of holding air;

(3) Oral inflation tubes that are not blocked, detached, or broken;

(4) A manual inflation lanyard or lever that is not inaccessible, broken, or missing; and

(5) Inflator status indicators that are not broken or otherwise non-functional.

(d) The inflation system of an inflatable PFD need not be armed when the PFD is worn inflated and otherwise meets the requirements of paragraphs (a) and (c) of this section.

[CGD 93-055, 61 FR 13926, Mar. 28, 1996]
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