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Old 07-10-2016, 06:05   #121
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Re: Escaping a Huricane by heading out to ocean

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OK, Vanuatu has no navigable river systems, no mangrove areas big enough to shelter a boat, no decent haulout facility capable of hauling a number of boats quickly. We're not all in comfy America with travel lifts dotted everywhere. We have to rely on ourselves and our seamanship, not an insurance policy and some conveniently placed infrastructure. I guess that's why only the intrepid sailors generally come here.
You could moor just past Havanna on Efate, Going north from Havanna, On the east side of the channel, Its a nice protected area with hills both sides and only 14 feet of water,
Its open to north south winds, But you could be out of it parked hard against the land, Very large trees there too, Tie your boat to them, and they would protect you from the wind blowing thru,
The road comes within about 30 feet of the water is where I am talking about,
There is a small village just back into the trees there too,
I spent 3 days there, Great spot,
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Old 07-10-2016, 06:12   #122
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Re: Escaping a Huricane by heading out to ocean

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I am sorry GOINGWALKABOUT that even though just about everyone has brought up some valid points here on this thread, almost no one addressed your original question without getting somewhat negative.
I have, like you, always wondered about heading out to sea, as you said like the fishing boats used to do and would love to hear more of the history of same. Maybe some old books or articles?
Although I for one have always looked for the nearest mangrove in my Beneteau 50, I am curious and will research it and see what I come up with as far as historical accounts.
Find a copy of that book I referenced, and look up some of those data bases I referenced on that other subject thread.
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Old 07-10-2016, 06:27   #123
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Re: Escaping a Huricane by heading out to ocean

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Leave to 3 days ago ? to where??
Get away from shallow water and land obstacles. And get out of the Gulf Stream. In this case head east out into the Atlantic.

Sure you may see tropical strength winds, but if you do NOT need to be constantly at the helm (under a sea anchor off the bow), you can survive this.
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Old 07-10-2016, 06:30   #124
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Re: Escaping a Huricane by heading out to ocean

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This is truly a monster hurricane. 280 now confirmed dead in just Haiti.

Estinated 100,000 boats will be sunk or wrecked on the USA east coast.

Up to 50% of boats in the Bahamas have been destroyed.

Given this hurricane was bearing down on this track for nearly a week there was ample time to take to sea. And yes, even out of tge way of the second low.
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Old 07-10-2016, 06:33   #125
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Re: Escaping a Huricane by heading out to ocean

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Heading east from the US east coast to avoid a hurricane approaching from the south takes you into the storm's dangerous semicircle, beating hundreds of miles into strong easterlies.
You have a good point there.
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Old 07-10-2016, 07:27   #126
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Re: Escaping a Huricane by heading out to ocean

Victor Shane's Drag Device Data Base

Victor Shane's Drag Device Data Base | Using Parachutes, Sea Anchors and Drogues to Cope with Heavy Weather – Over 130 Documented Case Histories


I am particularly interested in this one....
Sea Anchors on Catamarans | Victor Shane's Drag Device Data Base
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Old 07-10-2016, 07:35   #127
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Re: Escaping a Huricane by heading out to ocean

There is a lot more to this than merely escaping to sea, people have families, businesses and houses to deal with too.

One thing that has always upset me is after every one of these storms, you see the pictures of the carnage at the local airports where the aircraft are tossed one atop of the other against the airport fence.

OK, so running from a Storm in a 5 to 6 kt boat may not be such a good idea, but in an airplane that cruises in the hundreds of miles an hour? Yet they stay tied to the ground with flimsy ropes?
That is why I say there is more to this than simply taking your vessel to safety.
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Old 07-10-2016, 08:02   #128
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Re: Escaping a Huricane by heading out to ocean

One must utilize PROPER and good condition gear, whether planes or boats.

Good size auger anchors combined with good cordage WILL anchor planes just fine.

Proper line (size and length) and anti-chaft attention combined with a proper size sea anchor parachute will 'anchor' the vessel to the sea.

Family and business maters are all personal options that should not matter that much in a discussion as to whether it is safe thing to do, technical wise.
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Old 07-10-2016, 08:09   #129
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Re: Escaping a Huricane by heading out to ocean

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There is a lot more to this than merely escaping to sea, people have families, businesses and houses to deal with too.

One thing that has always upset me is after every one of these storms, you see the pictures of the carnage at the local airports where the aircraft are tossed one atop of the other against the airport fence.

OK, so running from a Storm in a 5 to 6 kt boat may not be such a good idea, but in an airplane that cruises in the hundreds of miles an hour? Yet they stay tied to the ground with flimsy ropes?
That is why I say there is more to this than simply taking your vessel to safety.
Guess the airport is forced to close operations and lots of planes are forced to stay, many planes are just parked in the field or pilots don't have any flight plan in order to leave??? I dont know but my guess could be that the kind of planes piled after a hurricane are the peculiar Cesna or the Beechcraft kind of planes, I cant imagine a $$$$$ million A380 during a hurricane.....
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Old 07-10-2016, 09:02   #130
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Re: Escaping a Huricane by heading out to ocean

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Originally Posted by a64pilot View Post
There is a lot more to this than merely escaping to sea, people have families, businesses and houses to deal with too.

One thing that has always upset me is after every one of these storms, you see the pictures of the carnage at the local airports where the aircraft are tossed one atop of the other against the airport fence.

OK, so running from a Storm in a 5 to 6 kt boat may not be such a good idea, but in an airplane that cruises in the hundreds of miles an hour? Yet they stay tied to the ground with flimsy ropes?
That is why I say there is more to this than simply taking your vessel to safety.
I think one of the issues for both plane and boat owners is procrastination coupled with "hope". Waiting for the last day with the hope that a twist or turn will move the hurricane in another direction.

Reality sets in too late for the procrastinator's and magic hope thinkers. Of course if they acted in a timely manner both boaters and plane owners could easily move out of danger.
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Old 07-10-2016, 10:00   #131
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Re: Escaping a Huricane by heading out to ocean

Even at 5 Knots, due east from the US coast, that puts you 240 Nautical miles away from the coast in 48 hours, well away from a predicted storm front,
3 days and your 360 Nautical miles out to sea,
Run in front of the waves and wind,
Bearing into the wind is a mugs game and will destroy your boat in heavy seas,
The seas dont get very rough till the storm is almost apon you,
Massive seas and winds are in the storm, Not hundreds of miles away from it,
A bit of common sense might help here too,
Running at about 30 to 40 degrees off the crest of waves keeps your speed down to a safe level, You dont plow into the waves ahead off you, Its a nice easy ride, Steady,
Even if you get caught in the storm, run down wind and veer off to the side of it, and away from it,
You have plenty of clear ocean to sail in, Its not as hard as people think it is,
I sail a 34 foot Cat and 7 metre waves were no problem at all, Down wind,

I was on the motor going north at 7 knots, 5 metre waves and a screaming wind on the nose, South bound current was running at Approx 5 knots,
I was going backwards at 1.5 knots on the GPS, The boat was crashing over the waves some thing horrible,
I gave it away and went south, then it was easy sailing, Down wind, I had about 2 feet of the bottom of the Genoa out, and still doing 6 to 9 knots on the wind only,

Cyclones actually run between 4 and 12 miles per hour, The higher the speed the less damage they do,
Under 4 miles per hour, Find a hole and hide in it till the cyclone has gone, They destroy every thing,
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Old 07-10-2016, 10:56   #132
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Re: Escaping a Huricane by heading out to ocean

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Guess the airport is forced to close operations and lots of planes are forced to stay, many planes are just parked in the field or pilots don't have any flight plan in order to leave??? I dont know but my guess could be that the kind of planes piled after a hurricane are the peculiar Cesna or the Beechcraft kind of planes, I cant imagine a $$$$$ million A380 during a hurricane.....

Yes privately owned airplanes.
When an airport closes, it becomes an uncontrolled field, you then just talk on tower freq to advise other traffic.
You don't need to have a flight plan, but one is easily filed. Your not asking permission, merely informing intent.
FAA can and does close airspace, but that is never until after the Hurricane because they don't want rubber neckers getting in the way of Disaster relief flight, USCG etc. Same for big fires out West. They wouldn't I'm sure keep anyone from evacuating.

No, there is no good reason to leave the planes, but they are left. I would think that insurance would not cover the loss, but I guess it does, often times I think the owners are pleased to sell the airplanes to the insurance company, just like I think a lot of boat owners are.
It's surprising how many correlations there are between boat ownership and aircraft ownership there are.
Both are dreams, that sometimes go bad.
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Old 07-10-2016, 11:07   #133
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Re: Escaping a Huricane by heading out to ocean

"Better to be on land wishing you were at sea, than at sea wishing you were on land"
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Old 07-10-2016, 11:08   #134
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Re: Escaping a Huricane by heading out to ocean

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I think one of the issues for both plane and boat owners is procrastination coupled with "hope". Waiting for the last day with the hope that a twist or turn will move the hurricane in another direction.

Reality sets in too late for the procrastinator's and magic hope thinkers. Of course if they acted in a timely manner both boaters and plane owners could easily move out of danger.
I think you're sadly mistaken if you think a boat making 5-6 knots can get out of the way of a hurricane. Storms don't always go the direction and speed the forecasters predict, plus secondary storms appears from nowhere after you commit and initiate to a plan of action. We discovered this on a much smaller scale last season in the Med, where we attempted to thread the needle between two storm fronts only to be caught in the middle of the second plus having to deal with the remnants of the first. We did fine in winds of 40-49 knots, but a hurricane is on a different scale altogether. Higher more damaging winds and covering a much larger area.

Anyone trying to outrun a hurricane under the guidance of a three day prediction in a small boat would be making a BIG dumbass mistake IMHO.
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Old 07-10-2016, 12:03   #135
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Re: Escaping a Huricane by heading out to ocean

donot forget to figure into your calcs the fact a cane moves faster than a sailboat, and leaving a few days earlier than the hit is placing you in the cane. doesnt matter how many miles diameter that is, you IT.
so, figure a cane moves about 8-17 mph toward its target and you move 3.8 mph away from its target.. its winds are pushing at xxx mph surges and wells are added and you are now busy as hell. so... iff you are in a cane because you decide to outrun it, it will not matter what the quadrant is you are trying not to knock down in, you will . more than once. you will not be able to cook on board in comfort and will run out of chocolate before you run out i of busy. as life ends after chocolate is gone, you will die.
iff, however you stocked much more chocolate than necessary, you may live until the next knockdown, in a bout 5 or so minutes.
having fun yet???
your crew, if any, has already called uscg for rescue and you are having a grand time.

i think the extreme anchor challenge sounded more comfortable for passing out in a storm.
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