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Old 17-03-2014, 08:36   #76
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Re: Dolphin Asks Diver For help

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Originally Posted by mottseng View Post
You can't see intelligence in eyes and dolphins are not somebody. They are not HUMAN and therefore do not have reasoning ability.
I'm going to agree with you that you can't "see" intelligence in the eyes. Not in humans, not in dolphins, not in dogs. There is just way too much to intelligence to imagine that you can see it in the eyes.

On the other hand, your assertion that because they are not human, therefore dolphins cannot reason is just plain idiotic. The assumption that ONLY humans can possibly have the ability to reason is just amazingly arrogant. There is a fairly substantial body of proof that many animal species are capable of reasoning.

Dolphins, apes, dogs, cats... The list just goes on and on of the various species that are quite clearly capable of a fairly high degree of reasoning.
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Old 17-03-2014, 10:03   #77
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Re: Dolphin Asks Diver For help

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On the other hand, your assertion that because they are not human, therefore dolphins cannot reason is just plain idiotic. The assumption that ONLY humans can possibly have the ability to reason is just amazingly arrogant. There is a fairly substantial body of proof that many animal species are capable of reasoning.

Dolphins, apes, dogs, cats... The list just goes on and on of the various species that are quite clearly capable of a fairly high degree of reasoning.
I recall well documented examples of chimps using tools like catching ants using blades of grass and then teaching their offspring the same trick.
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Old 17-03-2014, 10:33   #78
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Re: Dolphin Asks Diver For help

I think it's funny to base an argument on "scientific research" when dealing with what animals think.

How the hell does one know what goes through an animal's brain, whether it be a dog, cat, ape, dolphin, or human? You cannot read minds. There is no possible way to know exactly what they are thinking, it's one of the great wonders of life...
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Old 17-03-2014, 11:26   #79
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Re: Dolphin Asks Diver For help

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Mottseng, do you have a dog?
First off why do you ask? Secondly I would gamble that I know far more about dogs and training them then you do.
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Old 17-03-2014, 11:29   #80
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Re: Dolphin Asks Diver For help

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Originally Posted by denverd0n View Post
I'm going to agree with you that you can't "see" intelligence in the eyes. Not in humans, not in dolphins, not in dogs. There is just way too much to intelligence to imagine that you can see it in the eyes.

On the other hand, your assertion that because they are not human, therefore dolphins cannot reason is just plain idiotic. The assumption that ONLY humans can possibly have the ability to reason is just amazingly arrogant. There is a fairly substantial body of proof that many animal species are capable of reasoning.

Dolphins, apes, dogs, cats... The list just goes on and on of the various species that are quite clearly capable of a fairly high degree of reasoning.
Show me the scientific proof.
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Old 17-03-2014, 11:33   #81
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Re: Dolphin Asks Diver For help

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I think it's funny to base an argument on "scientific research" when dealing with what animals think.

How the hell does one know what goes through an animal's brain, whether it be a dog, cat, ape, dolphin, or human? You cannot read minds. There is no possible way to know exactly what they are thinking, it's one of the great wonders of life...
Just shooting from the hip, I would say that one doesn't need to know precisely what is "going through an animals mind" in order to conclude if an animal can reason. We can infer though actions and observables.
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Old 17-03-2014, 11:42   #82
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Re: Dolphin Asks Diver For help

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Show me the scientific proof.
That was found in the link on Post #1!

People used to believe animals could not feel pain. We know they do. People used to believe they did not grieve a lost companion or human. We--those of us who live with them--know they do. Those beliefs were due to the arrogance of mankind.

These animals think, reason, love, learn. My experience with them is my proof. The only issue in question is the levels of their capabilities.
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Old 17-03-2014, 12:00   #83
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Re: Dolphin Asks Diver For help

In an attempt to close the loop on all of this I offer the following. Yes, that was an amazing video and there are dozens of amazing videos showing animals interacting with humans. There are many debates both scientific and philosophic on whether or not animals can reason, I for one believe that they can't. Those of you that believe they can, who am I or anyone else to change your mind. All I tried to do is represent the can't argument. I base my argument on the fact that dolphins and other animals do not possess cognitive thinking in terms of understanding themselves to think about cause and effect, truth and falsehood or good and bad. Reasoning is closely identified with the ability to self-consciously change beliefs, attitudes, traditions and institutions, and therefore with the capacity for freedom and self-determination. So I hold fast to my stand on animals not possessing reasoning ability as they do not have the ability for cognitive thinking.

This thread at times has been a heated debate with some insults thrown in both directions. I for one apologize if I have insulted anyone.

The short of it is that we can agree to disagree!!
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Old 17-03-2014, 14:04   #84
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Re: Dolphin Asks Diver For help

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Show me the scientific proof.
Oh, that's good. Like you even care about scientific proof.

This would be funny, if it wasn't so sad.

No... Wait a minute... Yes, actually, it is pretty funny, no matter how sad it might also be.
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Old 17-03-2014, 14:07   #85
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Re: Dolphin Asks Diver For help

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There is no possible way to know exactly what [animals] are thinking...
Well duh. Has anyone claimed to know exactly what any animal is thinking? No. Nonetheless, it is still possible for them to demonstrate cognitive reasoning abilities. That has nothing to do with knowing "exactly what they are thinking."
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Old 17-03-2014, 14:11   #86
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Re: Dolphin Asks Diver For help

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First off why do you ask? Secondly I would gamble that I know far more about dogs and training them then you do.
So.... is that a yes or no?
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Old 17-03-2014, 14:29   #87
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Re: Dolphin Asks Diver For help

Oh, Coops!

Did You ever envisaged what be the effect of sharing this video???



By the way, I heard on radio some days ago as Parliament of India passed a law defining the dolphin as "Person not being human"
Has something to do with dolphins protection, I suppose
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Old 17-03-2014, 14:53   #88
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Re: Dolphin Asks Diver For help

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Oh, Coops!

Did You ever envisaged what be the effect of sharing this video???



By the way, I heard on radio some days ago as Parliament of India passed a law defining the dolphin as "Person not being human"
Has something to do with dolphins protection, I suppose
Good isn't it? Post a feel good little video to put a smile on somebody's dial and as an antidote to all the doom and gloom that seems to get pushed upon us from everywhere and see what happens.

It's cool though, this way at least more get see it to find out what the frenzy is all about.

Coops.
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Old 17-03-2014, 18:21   #89
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Re: Dolphin Asks Diver For help

Coops, it was a great video and an even better story. It put a smile on my face. I don't know why some people feel compelled to spread doom and gloom and generally want to destroy happy moments -- but this made my day THANKS!

Robyn
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Old 18-03-2014, 08:03   #90
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Re: Dolphin Asks Diver For help

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Oh, that's good. Like you even care about scientific proof.

This would be funny, if it wasn't so sad.

No... Wait a minute... Yes, actually, it is pretty funny, no matter how sad it might also be.
Your rant makes no sense at all. What is so funny and what is sad? Is it funny or sad that I ask that you substantiate your statement with evidence.

If you can't substantiate as requested then stop posting ridiculous comments.
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