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Old 13-03-2014, 15:23   #31
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Re: Dolphin Asks Diver For help

Anyone else have trouble with the link?
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Old 13-03-2014, 15:24   #32
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Re: Dolphin Asks Diver For help

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You best watch this then if you think that they cannot reason.

A crow solves an eight-step puzzle. [VIDEO]

Coops.
Don't mistake this for reasoning ability as opposed to understanding concepts such as numerical continuity (but not necessarily counting).

Please don't tell me that you believe a crow can solve an eight-step puzzle without some mimic training? Now that is unreasonable.
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Old 13-03-2014, 15:27   #33
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Re: Dolphin Asks Diver For help

You suggesting that everybody on this thread but yourself is on crack could also be classified as unreasonable. It also could be true, but it is not proven to be fact.

Coops.
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Old 13-03-2014, 15:41   #34
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Re: Dolphin Asks Diver For help

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I didn't say it ..... scientists say it. I think its absurd that you didn't know that.
Isn't it wonderful that scientists always agree 100% with each other? The climate change debate is one fine example.

Stating that something is true because "scientists" say it is about the most unreasoned and absurd argument I've ever heard...
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Old 13-03-2014, 15:43   #35
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Re: Dolphin Asks Diver For help

Reasoning is "thinking about something in a logical way"

If I'm standing on the golden gate bridge with my dog, and throw a ball over the edge, he wouldn't jump. I would call that reasoning.
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Old 13-03-2014, 15:48   #36
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Re: Dolphin Asks Diver For help

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Reasoning is "thinking about something in a logical way"

If I'm standing on the golden gate bridge with my dog, and throw a ball over the edge, he wouldn't jump. I would call that reasoning.

Exactly.


If a dolphin attached a bomb to mottseng's ass because he claimed that dolphins couldn't reason, I'd say that's even further proof.
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Old 13-03-2014, 15:52   #37
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Re: Dolphin Asks Diver For help

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Don't mistake this for reasoning ability as opposed to understanding concepts such as numerical continuity (but not necessarily counting).

Please don't tell me that you believe a crow can solve an eight-step puzzle without some mimic training? Now that is unreasonable.
Now you're beginning to split hairs down to the microscopic level.

Next you'll tell me that the ability to use tools to fashion clothing or accessorize an outfit are not evidence of reasoning, but merely mimicry.


Go ahead, say that out loud in Paris during fashion week. I dare you.
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Old 13-03-2014, 16:11   #38
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Re: Dolphin Asks Diver For help

dudes ...you guys are awesome....I never drop acid when im smoking weed it makes me think about that crazy **** you guys are talking about... dolphins are cool man...does anyone have some Cheetos man
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Old 13-03-2014, 16:43   #39
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Re: Dolphin Asks Diver For help

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That isn't reasoning its training. The training of animals almost always involves a reward. How did you think a dolphin would identify an enemy vessel. I didn't know dolphins had citizenship. I find your answer very strange.
So you are saying the reason dolphins can identify enemy vessels is because they will receive a reward and training. Sounds reasonable, logical, rational and comprehensible to me. Also sounds like a reason why I take my woman out to eat and do what I can to keep her happy, so I can receive a reward
Call that training, reasonable, logical or whatever you like! Life is full of reward, and the reward comes in many many forms

Dolphins are very intelligent
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Old 13-03-2014, 17:07   #40
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Re: Dolphin Asks Diver For help

Cognitive ethology is a branch of ethology concerned with the influence of conscious awareness and intention on the behaviour of an animal.

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Reasoning and problem solving

Closely related to tool use is the study of reasoning and problem solving. It has been observed that the manner in which chimpanzees solve problems, such as that of retrieving bananas positioned out of reach, is not through trial-and-error. Instead, they were observed to proceed in a manner that was "unwaveringly purposeful."[73]


It is clear that animals of quite a range of species are capable of solving a range of problems that are argued to involve abstract reasoning;[74] modern research has tended to show that the performances of Wolfgang Köhler's chimpanzees, who could achieve spontaneous solutions to problems without training, were by no means unique to that species, and that apparently similar behavior can be found in animals usually thought of as much less intelligent, if appropriate training is given.[75] Causal reasoning has also been observed in rooks and New Caledonian crows.[
Cognitive Ethology and the Explanation of Nonhuman Animal Behavior
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Old 13-03-2014, 17:58   #41
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Re: Dolphin Asks Diver For help

Pretty intense discussion about whether dolphins, or any other non-human species, are able to reason. Certainly they are intelligent. Do they use symbology and language to make "reasoned" connections between concepts? Science probably has changing and divergent opinions. Me, I don't really care. It seems a bit like how many angels dance on the head of a pin. Either way, dolphins are incredibly complex beings. Let me tell you a story ...

When I was young, about 20 years old, I took a job working on the M/V Clipperton - a tuna clipper out of San Pedro. We went out to an area about 1,000 miles west of Costa Rica, the Clipperton Fracture Zone, and stayed out at sea for over 5 months purse seining for tuna. That method involved catching tons of tuna in a huge net, which we closed and brought in closer to the boat to scoop the tuna out of the net and into the boat. How did we know that the tuna were there? We caught dolphins. The tuna were under the dolphins which were feeding on the tuna. So here we were with hundreds of dolphins caught in the net. We would back the boat up and dip the net, which released many of the dolphins. Still, many were left. A few of us took additional action. With the approval of the captain a group of us (about five guys) would jump into the water. We would swim across about 50 feet of open water and then crawl into the net. OK, there we were. Dozens and dozens of dolphins drowning, we're standing on top of huge tunas, and sharks were tearing into the net to eat the tuna. Seriously serious stuff. I would grab a dolphin, dip the net down, and throw (using the wave action) the dolphins out of the net. The dolphins would look at me and - well, let's just say that there was a definite connection. So many times I would just put my hand in the dolphin's mouth (full of very sharp teeth) and grab a fin. The dolphins would go limp and then gently assist by swimming as I pulled them out of the net. Not once but hundreds of times. Intelligent, yes, rational ? - there sure seemed to be some significant interaction.

In the ensuing years, the laws have changed to protect dolphins in the tuna fishing industry. It's a long and complicated story. This experience changed me in profound ways. I went on to a 34 year career teaching High School Biology, but have always remembered the look in a dolphin's eye. Thanks for sharing the video of the dolphin interacting with the diver. It struck a responsive chord with me.
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Old 13-03-2014, 19:11   #42
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Re: Dolphin Asks Diver For help

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Originally Posted by Blue Skye View Post
So you are saying the reason dolphins can identify enemy vessels is because they will receive a reward and training. Sounds reasonable, logical, rational and comprehensible to me. Also sounds like a reason why I take my woman out to eat and do what I can to keep her happy, so I can receive a reward
Call that training, reasonable, logical or whatever you like! Life is full of reward, and the reward comes in many many forms

Dolphins are very intelligent
Post of the month.

You should get a free Cruisers Forum Burgee for that!!!
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Old 13-03-2014, 19:32   #43
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Re: Dolphin Asks Diver For help

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I agree completely. I was involved with a rescue of False Killer Whales off Crowdy Head , NSW. The whales beached and were transported to the boat harbour. As part of a Uni dive club we drove down to help. The whales (about 30 if them) would corkscrew through the water and were not able to breath properly. They were swimming in a tight circle in the harbour. We swam with them all through the night, grabbing their pectoral fins and bringing them to the surface to breath. These were large animals that could have broken our limbs with a careless swipe of their tails, but they were oh so gentle.

Towards the end of the night I hadn't seen one of the smaller ones for a while, and then two healthy whales, patrolling the edges of the group, swam under the other animals and surfaced with the young one between them, assisting it to breathe. It was amazing and moving. We swam them out of the harbour in the morning, but some of them beached again. On the second attempt, we were more successful. I think it is still recorded as one of the most successful rescues.

I must admit i was a bit disconcerted at the BC video recently that shows killer whales herding some dolphins and then devouring them!
That must have been an unbelievable experience.
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Old 14-03-2014, 06:44   #44
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Re: Dolphin Asks Diver For help

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Post of the month.

You should get a free Cruisers Forum Burgee for that!!!
Yes, please hand out a Post of the Month award for a wonderful sexist comment. Congratulations.
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Old 14-03-2014, 06:49   #45
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Re: Dolphin Asks Diver For help

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Reasoning is "thinking about something in a logical way"

If I'm standing on the golden gate bridge with my dog, and throw a ball over the edge, he wouldn't jump. I would call that reasoning.
Its not reasoning its instinct.... You really should do some reading!!

See below.

Dog deaths at Overtoun Bridge


Overtoun Bridge


Studies have shown that since the 1950s or 1960s numerous dogs have leaped from the bridge at the rate of about one dog per year. Dogs that leap over the bridge parapet fall 50 feet (15 m) onto the waterfalls below. Some dogs that survived this drop, and were then taken back to the bridge, have jumped again. The only linking factors for this unexplained event are that dogs mostly jump from the same side of the bridge, in clear weather, and they are breeds with long snouts.
As the unexplained phenomenon received international media attention, the Scottish SPCA sent an animal habitat expert to investigate the causes as to why dogs kill themselves at Overtoun Bridge. Initially Dr David Sands examined sight, smell and sound factors. After eliminating what a dog could potentially see and hear on the bridge, he eventually focused on scent following the discovery of mice and mink in undergrowth on the side of the bridge from which dogs often leaped. In a test, the odours from these animals were spread around an open field. Ten dogs were unleashed - representing the most common breeds that jumped off the bridge. Of the dogs tested, only two showed no interest in any of the scents while nearly all the others made straight for the mink scent. Sands concluded that, although it was not a definitive answer, the potent odour from male mink urine was possibly luring keen-nosed dogs to their deaths.
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