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Old 15-10-2007, 13:50   #31
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Climate change is inevitable, Global warming is political football, as Jupiter and Mars are also warming and by my last look in Wikipedia weren't inhabitated, I'd say the Solar Flare theory holds more water than human intervention, but wheres the money and political kudos to be made out of that
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Old 15-10-2007, 14:01   #32
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Originally Posted by GordMay View Post
1. What, other than “science” should one cite, when discussing scientific issues?
That's my point. Gore attempts to bolster his conclusion with flawed scientific arguments. His bashers site his flawed science to bolster their argument that his conclusion is false. Equally flawed logic. If they used his flawed science to state that his conclusion may not be correct, they would be on to some thing.

Fictitious Eg.
Gore says, "2+2=4 because the world is flat."

His bashers say, "No no no... the world has been proven to not be flat so, therefore, 2+2 cannot equal 4."

Same logic.
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Old 15-10-2007, 17:50   #33
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under the kyoto protocol, us sails should be being paid to sail, with carbon credits and all that, I mite be able to cruise world yet, especially with it being an election next year and all

On the backside of the DMV registration for my Laser, it described what to do in case it needs a smog check. It's a darn good thing it does not need a smog check this year because I don't think the probe would fit up the hull plug opening.

Also...the registration fees are 20 bucks but the late fees are 30 bucks. I don't think even the Mafia charges a 150% late penalty.
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Old 15-10-2007, 20:25   #34
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Does this sound familiar? INVENT a problem so YOU have the answer!
Oh, we got trouble, right here in River City!



Well, ya got trouble, my friend.
Right here, I say trouble right here in River City
Why, sure, I'm a billiard player
Certainly mighty proud to say,
I'm always mighty proud to say it
I consider the hours I spend with a cue in my hand are golden
Help you cultivate horse sense and a cool head and a keen eye
Didja ever take an' try an' give an iron clad leave
to yourself from a three-rail billiard shot?
But just as I say it takes judgement, brains and maturity
to score in a balk-line game
I say that any boob can take and shove a ball in a pocket
And I call that sloth,
the first big step on the road to the depths of degreda-
I say, first- medicinal wine from a teaspoon,
then beer from a bottle
And the next thing you know your son is playin'
for money in a pinchback suit
and listenin' to some big out-o'-town jasper
Hear him tell about horserace gamblin'
Not a wholesome trottin' race, no,
but a race where they set down right on the horse
Like to see some stuck up jockey boy sittin' on Dan Patch?
Make your blood boil, well I should say
Now, folks, let me show you what I mean
You got one, two, three, four, five, six pockets in a table
Pockets that mark the difference between a gentleman and a bum
With a capital 'B' and that rhymes with 'P' and that stands for 'pool'

And all week long, your River City youth'll be fritterin' away
I say, your young men'll be fritterin'
Fritterin' away their noontime, suppertime, choretime, too
Hit the ball in the pocket
Never mind gettin' dandelions pulled or the screen door patched
or the beefsteak pounded
Never mind pumpin' any water 'til your parents are caught
with a cistern empty on a Saturday night and that's trouble
Oh, ya got lots and lots o' trouble
I'm thinkin' of the kids in the knickerbockers shirttails,
young ones peekin' in the pool hall window after school
Ya got trouble, folks, right here in River City
with a capital 'T' and that rhymes with 'P' and that stands for 'pool'

Now I know all you folks are the right kind of parents
I'm gonna be perfectly frank
Would you like to know what kind of conversation goes on
while they're loafin' around that hall
They'll be tryin' out Bevo, tryin' out Cubebs,
tryin' out tailor-mades like cigarette fiends
And braggin' all about how they're gonna cover up
a tell-tale breath with Sen-Sen
Now one fine night they leave the pool hall
headin' for the dance at the Armory
Libertine men and scarlet women and ragtime
Shameless music that'll grab your son, your daughter
into the arms of a jungle animal instinct- massteria!
Friends, the idle brain is the devil's playground, trouble!

Oh, we got trouble
Right here in River City
Right here in River City
With a capital 'T' and that rhymes with 'P' and that stands for 'pool'
That stands for pool
We surely got trouble
We surely got trouble
Right here in River City
Right here

Gotta figure out a way to keep the young ones
moral after school

Spoken:
Mothers of River City,
heed this warning before it's too late
Watch for the tell-tale signs of corruption
The minute your son leaves the house
does he rebuckle his knickerbockers below the knee?
Is there a nicotine stain on his index finger?
A dime novel hidden in the corncrib?
Is he starting to memorize jokes
from Cap'n Billy's Whizbang?
Are certain words creeping into his conversation?
Words like... swell?
And... 'so's your old man'?
Well if so, my friends...

Ya got trouble
Oh, we got trouble
Right here in River City
Right here in River City
With a capital 'T' and that rhymes with 'P' and that stands for 'pool'
That stands for pool
We've surely got trouble
We surely got trouble
Right here in River City
Right here

Remember the Maine, Plymouth Rock and the Golden Rule?
Oho, we got trouble
We're in terrible, terrible trouble
That game with the fifteen numbered balls is the devil's tool
Devil's tool
Yes, we've got trouble, trouble, trouble
Oh, yes, we got trouble here, we got big, big trouble
With a 'T'

With a capital 'T'
And that rhymes with 'P'
That rhymes with 'P'
And that stands for pool
That stands for pool

Remember my friends, listen to me,
because I pass this way but once

(chant 'trouble', etc.)
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Old 15-10-2007, 22:31   #35
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under the kyoto protocol, us sails should be being paid to sail, with carbon credits and all that,
Ummm, well seeing as Sail cloth is made from synthetic fibres made from oil and seeing as the sowing machines need electricity which comes most likely came from burning something like oil and then after the sail has reached the end of it's life, it gets thrown in a landfill to never break down, then no you could say we are just adding to the pollution as well.
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Old 15-10-2007, 23:00   #36
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I'm gonna build my boat out of sand and bird spit. It will be powered by a palm frond paddle that fell naturally from a tree.

Although, of course, I am probably destroying the habitat of some sand crab that is critical to the ecological balance of the planet.

I could kill myself but then disposal of my toxic carcass could be an issue...
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Old 15-10-2007, 23:22   #37
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Yes...but let us not talk about the bottom paint we use that I am told is polluting the harbors. Geeeez! No matter what i do or where I go, I'll never be green enough. Think I'll go sailing.
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Old 16-10-2007, 01:31   #38
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I'm gonna build my boat out of sand and bird spit.
Errrr, would that be called Ferrocement?? :-)
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Old 16-10-2007, 02:28   #39
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Climate Change

I am firmly of the belief that as we have had the technology to accurately record weather data; air and sea temperatures, sea levels, wind strengths, etc etc, for a period of maybe 100 - 150 years, this is way too little data to conclude there is global warming and attribute a cause.

Depending on how you view such things, the earth has been in existence for thousands of years, and who can accurately say that the earth has not been through such a cycle previously?? During the 1970's scientists promoted climate change, except that on that occasion the earth was COOLING.

What the???? how can we go from cooling to heating in the space of a couple of decades??

Just my 2c worth; won't stop me driving my car or using air conditioning etc till more conclusive evidence can be produced. I will however, be going sailing as much as possible (but this may be for different reasons).

Fair winds - (till they dissapear, or turn into hurricanes)

Steve
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Old 16-10-2007, 03:08   #40
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I am firmly of the belief that as we have had the technology to accurately record weather data; air and sea temperatures, sea levels, wind strengths, etc etc, for a period of maybe 100 - 150 years, this is way too little data to conclude there is global warming and attribute a cause...
Steve's right - in that eliable surface temperature observation records exists only since about 1850 (although the barometer and thermometer were invented by Torricelli and Galileo, respectively, in the first half of the seventeenth century),

Earlier period climates are determined by inferring the climate record from paleoclimatology proxies, such
* Tree Ring dating
* Glacial Ice Cores ( oxygen isotope ratios )
* Ocean Sediments - The ratio of oxygen 16 to oxygen 18 preserved in the steady rain of dead organisms.
* Radiocarbon dates of organic material
* Pollen samples found in packrat middens and lake bed samples.
* Variations in desert varnish coatings found on rocks in the arid southwest
* Variations found in peatbog deposits
* Sedimentary rock records
* Archeological discoveries
* Fossil data
* Other evidence, such as weather diaries, shipping logs, tax records, crop production and pricing records, allusions to climate in art and literature, etc...

See also:

NOAA’s Paleoclimatology Branch: NOAA Paleoclimatology Program - NCDC Paleoclimatology Branch

Explaining the Evidence ~ by Holli Riebeek
Earth Observatory Feature: Paleoclimatology: Explaining the Evidence

Climatology and Paleoclimatology Resources:
Paleoclimatology and Climatology
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Old 16-10-2007, 04:13   #41
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Didn't dinosaurs kinda like it hot? Maybe a little warming would cause a resurgence in them bad boys.

You also have to consider the time line:

4.6 billion years ago this place was hardly habitable it was so stinkin' hot. But the real question is how they got the dinosaurs to keep track of the temps...



Sort of a nice balanced paper on World temperatures at this site.

temperature
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Old 16-10-2007, 04:46   #42
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The planet has been around for millions of years, not thousands. At some point during that time, Anarctica was tropical, Hawaii had snow. Change happens. How fast, who knows. But if the gulf stream is altered by the flow of fresh water from the melting glaciers at the north pole (which is happening before our eyes, the Northwest Passage opened this summer), they will surely know it in Europe, where countries like England, which is further north than most realize, will be colder than a witches you know what. At any rate, stay afloat and move with the flow. That's my plan here.
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Old 16-10-2007, 04:50   #43
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Ok, so the north pole melts and stops the Gulf stream, causing an ice age. Won't all that freezing cause the Gulf stream to just start back up again?
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Old 16-10-2007, 05:01   #44
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Ok, so the north pole melts and stops the Gulf stream, causing an ice age. Won't all that freezing cause the Gulf stream to just start back up again?
”... Variability in the Global Conveyor Belt is believed to be an important factor in the occurrence of glacial periods, and is expected to have an important influence on how the global climate system will respond to the effects of increased greenhouse gases and trapping of radiation in the atmosphere ...”

THE OCEAN AND THE GLOBAL CONVEYOR BELT: ~ Fisheries & Oceans Canada
The Ocean and the Global Conveyor Belt
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Old 16-10-2007, 05:51   #45
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I understand new research has completely debunked the dire predictions of loss of the global conveyor being caused by global warming. NASA data that purported that the last decade was hottest has recently been found to be grossly in error. Temperature over the last decade has been steady, not going up or down. The hottest decade was in the 1930's when the 3-4 hottest years in the last century were recorded. If the Kyoto accords were fully implemented, by all countries, we maybe could have saved one polar bear. The swift calving of glaciers has stopped in Greenland in the past couple of years. The glacier most often cited as rapidly disappearing in Greenland is right next to another glacier that has been growing significantly during the same time period.

If you think global warming is bad, just think how much fun it would be if everything north of the Ohio river was under a mile of ice. I'll take global warming any day, it's way better than the opposite alternative.

Aloha
Peter O.
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