Cruisers' Lack of Etiquette for Commercial Vessels

[alaskamountainman]

For example-the "Fishing Pier" adjoining the Skyway Bridge in the Tampa Bay area charges $5.00 USD for one to visit the pier. If you haven't got the $5.00, tough beans. The Anna Maria Island Pier has commercial leases at the T-Head and everyone is welcome to use the pier without charge--so long as you don't impede the commercial users.

The difference is that both of the Skyway piers are Florida State Parks and the Anna Maria fishing pier is a municipal asset.

[rwidman]

Originally Posted by Finditsurfit

I have to vent about my day and the lack of understanding of cruisers with people who drive boats for a living. I am both. Today I was doing double hotsprings tours back to back and 11 hour day and I did one yesterday. We have a dock where my company and 4 others drop people off and pick up. There is a loading zone marked in white. While this is a public dock we pay a yearly usage fee. So when I show up to work and there is not where to drop off my passengers bc there was 2 trawlers and a fat hunter in my spot. I moved a float plane via asking nicely and when I tried to ask them to anchor and use there huge dinks they where rude and talked down to me. So I worked around them all day. docking on the 4 ft wide end by myself in 15 -20 knts. So next time you are rude to a comercial captain and think you have some right or prestige bc you have a big boat you should understand that you are a jerk.
Also I may drive a 30ft boat most days but I have delivered 100 ft yachts and am upgrading to my 200ton masters so don't talk down to the guy driving the small boat bc I prob have more miles under my belt and am out here all day and the west coast of vancouver island is nasty. I just want people to think before they act arrogant. I have "saved" some of boaters who couldn't drive there boat in 25 ft waves and I gave them a lift. I just hate that the community I love has crapped on me the last 2 days.

Would you like some cheese with that whine?

Captain Bill put it well - it's a public dock. How is someone supposed to know that you are special and have a reserved space?

Someone suggested rafting up to a docked boat and letting the passengers walk across it. Not on my boat you won't. Not if I'm aboard or in sight. My boat is private property and if you haven't been invited on board, you are trespassing.

If you truly have a right to a reserved space on the dock, you need to have signs explaining this. Official signs.

[Finditsurfit]

Well you boys who think that a large white area painted on a dock was just by accident then you are a joke. I was polite, it was the fuc%$%^ sailboat that was a dick. Lorenzo yes I do think that following the rules being a responsible guide is more important than your leisure. I am trying to pay my rent and support my family. Most people who have been sailing more than a few months anchor. There is tons of room in this spot. The area is painted. Do you park your car by a yellow curb? I am one of those polite commercial guys. I was delivering a 100ft wooden yacht with a chain steering and I deviated course for a sailboat in a narrow channel. I had a 4 knt current with 10ft draft.

Let me put it this way You go to the mall and see a big yellow painted curb and you park there a delivery truck pulls up with no where to unload and he nicely asks you to move and you cuss at him and tell him you don't see a "official sign" the delivery driver is just doing his job.

I am glad most of you have such a great attitude. When I cruise I give way to any commercial vessel. I always have and will. Cruising for me is taking it slow and enjoying little things not hassling people.

I out of this conversation I wish I wouldn't of started it. I just didn't have anyone but other captains to talk to and all they said was F them and there toys but I don't feel that same ways.

I am not going to wright any more I just needed to vent after a bad day. If you didn't know that white and yellow painted docks mean loading know you do. Thanks for those

[Opie91]

Finditsurfit I was with you until that last rant.

From you original post it seems that it is a loading zone not a "commercial only loading zone". If it is for commercial use only then as just about everyone else on this thread has said it needs to be posted. There should also be some type of posting with a time limit. There are all kinds of white lines painted all over the place on this planet and they all have different meanings.

If you need a definite parking place maybe you should think about renting a full time slip.

[Finditsurfit]

Well the boat that was there was there for 3 days total

[Opie91]

Originally Posted by Finditsurfit

Well the boat that was there was there for 3 days total

Sounds like a little excessive use of the loading zone. Anyone talk to the dockmaster?

[Captain Bill]

Originally Posted by Finditsurfit

Well you boys who think that a large white area painted on a dock was just by accident then you are a joke.

Findsurfit,
I think the problem is that it was painted white. Yellow and red curbs have significant meaning on land, usually no parking or no standing. White on the other hand can mean any number of things including park next to this line. Sometimes white does indicate a loading zone but if it does it is always accompanied by a lettered sign and in the US it is usually striped if it denotes an area not to be used and it is signed. Solid white can have any number of meaning none of which can be devined without signing or convention as in the white stripes in a parking lot. Perhaps this use of solid white is a local convention in BC and your rude sailboat operator wasn't local. I don't know who originally said this but when I was young an older gentleman gave me some valuable advice. He said "Never ascribe to malice what can be adequately explained by ignorance".

Perhaps some more of our Canadian Neighbor can chime in. Is solid white a universal symbol for a loading zone in Canada and if so is it usual or unusual for it to be accompanied by a sign?

[Pelagic]

Originally Posted by Captain Bill

Perhaps some more of our Canadian Neighbor can chime in. Is solid white a universal symbol for a loading zone in Canada and if so is usual or unusual for it to be accompanied by a sign?

Just remember it is a bi-lingual country so most of us Canadians have no idea exactly what things mean...lol

Findsurfit... Rwidman who is new was just trolling for the kind of reaction you gave him.

We really don't tolerate that kind of baiting and if you note, he was the only one who was not supportive.... so most of us would just ignore him

that says enough

Fair winds

[Finditsurfit]

Thanks my rant was uncalled for...

[Captain Bill]

Perhaps I have found the source of your issue. I Googled public doc rule in BC abd found this page on small boat harbors. Retreat Cove

I looked at each facility and all but one have a reserved space area. They don't all specify a color, but when they do they all indicate that the reserved area is marked in yellow. It would seem that the convention in BC is that reserved space at these docks is marked in yellow, not white. If that is in fact the convention no wonder someone gave you a hard time. To them the white marking was meaningless and if it was truely reserved it should have been marked in yellow. I assume that there was no dockmaster monitoring the dock. If the convention in my area was that reserved space and loading areas were marked in yellow and I was parked next to a white area and was told by someone who want space that as far as was publicly known was first come first serve, I might have told you to bug off as well. If the dock master had told me that the white area was a loading zone and I needed to move my boat, that would be a different story. Without some official notice in a case where the markings did not complty with convention you would just be another ass%^*) trying to cut into the front of the line. We have a public dock near where I sail. It is first come first serve, and has no reserved space but does have a 24 hour use limit. If I was tied up there and some commercial guy came up to me and told me I needed to move my boat so he could use the dock I would not feel obliged to honor his request and might well tell him to go perform an unnatural act on himself.

Since you do pay a fee I think you should pressure the local officials to paint the reserved area yellow according to the area convention. It might make for a dock without quite so many ass%*($.

[alaskamountainman]

I'm perplexed. When I drove across Canada while moving to Alaska, I saw more signs than I'd seen previously in my entire life. I assumed Canada just wanted to keep their prisoners busy making signs or something. I can't imagine why they wouldn't have ONE MORE telling people what to do...or not to do.

Refer to the Canadian "Five Man Electrical Band":

YouTube - Signs

[bangkaboat]

Originally Posted by Captain Bill

Perhaps I have found the source of your issue. I Googled public doc rule in BC abd found this page on small boat harbors. Retreat Cove

LOL, when I was a kid my great-grandfather, who was the local Coast Guard Aux. & Wharfinger of the dock in Retreat Cove, would untie any boats that were over their allotted time and push them out into the bay! I once watched as he untied a trimaran with no engine - "floating hippie house", as he called it, due to the ownership - pushed it off & it floated over to the little beach on the southside of the dock(Robin Bramble's property for those who know the place), where it sat, and they lived, for the rest of the summer, happily, because of all the blackberry bushes there. I've been friends with one of the kids from that boat for more than 40 years!

A lot of government docks in places such as this can not accomodate many boats and, come summer, our waters are full of recreational boaters, local & from south of the border. Because of this, most accept that rafting is a courtesy and most of the boaters are a harmonious lot. You do get the odd grump who seems to think that they and their boat are special, however, which really dampens the vacationing mood. As for commercial privileges, unless posted they don't exist, though most will respect their request for room. The first thing I do after mooring is go up & find the government sign, which usually tells you what the fee is, if there is a commercial area, etc. . It is important to check these signs as, in remote areas, such an area may be needed for an air or water ambulance.
Mike

[bangkaboat]

Originally Posted by Finditsurfit

Thanks my rant was uncalled for...

I thought it was a fair comment. I figure that if you were polite to the boatie, he/she could have shown the same good graces & cleared off.
Mike

[canuck1955]

Capt'n Bill

In Canada, most people understand yellow curbs are not to be parked at. it could be a fire lane, next to a wheelchair access, loading zone or too close to the corner. In private facilities (mall parking) you might see white. It is pretty clear though that the painted area signifies something different. First thought in my mind is, hmmmm that area is painted, I will park where there is no paint (uncommon sense, the other kind no longer exists) That's land based. Often there will be signs also. That said, many drivers don't care, sorta like some boaters.
------------------------
Profession vs Amateur. One does what he does for pay, one for enjoyment. No competency is implied in either, however being a professional means at least a standard has been met. The amateur could actually be just as or even more qualified than the professional. A retired oil tanker captain out on a cruise with his family (amateur?) should be competent! ! !

Perhaps we could use commercial vs pleasure.

As for I am making a living, yield to me-I disagree completely. I drive for a profession, I don't expect every other car to yield and get out of my way, just because I am a professional making a living. Once again though, an 18 wheeler barreling down the highway, cannot stop on a dime. I will yield where necessary but not just because they are bigger or working. I still expect them to do their part in following rules.

Might does not make right. But I would rather be wrong when sailing than dead to my rights...emphasis on dead!

BTW-my marina uses red and yellow paint. An american and I were chatting and he wanted to know where the government agent was. I stated this was a private marina and he asked
"Then why is it painted red and yellow, that's governmental wharfs". Learn something new everyday.

[jkleins]

Originally Posted by Pelagic

Just remember it is a bi-lingual country so most of us Canadians have no idea exactly what things mean...lol

Findsurfit... Rwidman who is new was just trolling for the kind of reaction you gave him.

We really don't tolerate that kind of baiting and if you note, he was the only one who was not supportive.... so most of us would just ignore him

that says enough

Fair winds

Well he may be new but he is not the only one not supportive. There are many different levels of support in this thread. I have not commented for that very reason. I support the fact that the cruiser should not have been rude but can't in any way support the concept that everyone should just know that a white painted dock is somehow off limits to anything but commercial boaters.

If I would have been in that boaters shoes I would have been polite but probably refused to move as well unless I could find some reason that my being there was wrong other then a water taxi drivers word for it. I don't know enough about what is written about the dock in guides and other publications that might have assisted the identification of the rules of the dock, but a public dock with a white stripe (safe/open to use, by my thinking) is not in and of itself reason to move just because another boat wants to use it.

The entire concept that somehow people who are working on the water should have some preference just doesn't make a whole lot of sense in my mind either. When I drive to work I don't expect the casual sightseers to pull over and let me through. Trucks follow the same rules of the road as other cars even though they are commercial. I don't let the UPS driver have my parking space out front just so he can make his deliveries easier. Public accommodations are public and there use is for all and governed by their rules of use. If commercial boaters really need a special accommodation they have to make sure those arrangements are clearly spelled out just like the special bus lanes next to bus stops on public highways and truck only rest areas along the interstate.

One can't just use the old line "don't you know I always come here at 5:00" and expect much sympathy from me if I am otherwise not breaking any rules.

Jim