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Old 12-07-2010, 17:49   #61
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In my time I've seen both recreational and commercial boaters behave in selfish, unconscionable ways. It's no good making polarising us vs them generalisations, when the culprits are the jerks, who you can find (rarely, hopefully) piloting any type of boat, and in every profession, in any country, and in every walk of life.
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Old 16-07-2010, 05:27   #62
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Here is a good example of why they call us WAFI's:

BBC News - Ship's near miss caught on video
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Old 16-07-2010, 06:39   #63
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. It is first come first serve, and has no reserved space but does have a 24 hour use limit. If I was tied up there and some commercial guy came up to me and told me I needed to move my boat so he could use the dock I would not feel obliged to honor his request and might well tell him to go perform an unnatural act on himself.
Wow.... Attitudes like this make me ashamed to be a sailor. Never in a million years did I think the arrogance of recreational boaters was so rampant and wide spread.

ANY commercial guy DOING HIS JOB, while I am simply relaxing and playing, would GLADLY get that space in a split second from me. Different strokes....

As a sailor/recreational boater, AND an ex-commercial fisherman, I am simply horrified at some of the responses here...
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Old 16-07-2010, 07:04   #64
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Originally Posted by Maine Sail View Post
Wow.... Attitudes like this make me ashamed to be a sailor. Never in a million years did I think the arrogance of recreational boaters was so rampant and wide spread.

ANY commercial guy DOING HIS JOB, while I am simply relaxing and playing, would GLADLY get that space in a split second from me. Different strokes....

As a sailor/recreational boater, AND an ex-commercial fisherman, I am simply horrified at some of the responses here...
You can be "horrified" if you want, but if it's a public dock and "first come, first served", whoever gets there first, "commercial guy doing his job" or "recreational boater", has the right to be there and stay there within the posted usage rules. The water belongs to everyone, so does a public dock. Some of us only have a limited time and budget to be "relaxing and playing".

Many of these public docks have been placed in towns and cities to promote tourism and help the nearby restaurants and other merchants. Someone engaged in a comercial enterprise should be using a comercial dock. In my area, commercial docks are marked as such with prominent signage. The rest are public and open to anyone, subject to posted rules.

Let me ask you this - Would you defend the commercial fisherman who places his crab pots in the river channel? And uses black floats that can't be seen at night? How about the one who places his crab pots in front of the marina entrance so we have to dodge them on the way in and out of the marina fairway?

And while we're at it, how about the commercial crabber who ties up the public boat ramp and dock while he discards all his dead crabs and old bait into the river while his dog barks non-stop for fifteen minutes?
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Old 16-07-2010, 07:20   #65
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You can be "horrified" if you want, but if it's a public dock and "first come, first served", whoever gets there first, "commercial guy doing his job" or "recreational boater", has the right to be there and stay there within the posted usage rules. The water belongs to everyone, so does a public dock. Some of us only have a limited time and budget to be "relaxing and playing".

Many of these public docks have been placed in towns and cities to promote tourism and help the nearby restaurants and other merchants. Someone engaged in a comercial enterprise should be using a comercial dock. In my area, commercial docks are marked as such with prominent signage. The rest are public and open to anyone, subject to posted rules.

Let me ask you this - Would you defend the commercial fisherman who places his crab pots in the river channel? And uses black floats that can't be seen at night? How about the one who places his crab pots in front of the marina entrance so we have to dodge them on the way in and out of the marina fairway?

And while we're at it, how about the commercial crabber who ties up the public boat ramp and dock while he discards all his dead crabs and old bait into the river while his dog barks non-stop for fifteen minutes?
Wow again...

Remember I am in Maine where we don't have rules about placement of pots and the commercial guys can place them where the bugs are, and I DON'T complain about placement.

I have no issues with guys that place pots where they want to, been living with it for over 40 years, and still sailing, and rarely catching a pot buoy. It's their gear and they know they run a risk of loosing it when placed stupidly.

I have a guy who keeps a trap string right under my boat, when the bugs are present, and keeps the buoy just out of my swing radius, he's a good guy and hard worker. He does this because he knows I have no problem with it and am apparently one of the few polite recreational boaters who respects his trade and livelihood.

Another guy in the anchorage cut one of his buoys, then was dumb enough to brag about it, even though it was 25+ feet from his nearest swing radius. Wouldn't you know he somehow wound up with a cockpit full of bait, and he's from "away", and uses his boat about every two weeks at best. He's now gone, perhaps got the message, and hopefully took his boat and lack of understanding of local accepted practices, back out of state.


As for the crabber and barking dog I'd find that just as rude as a pleasure boater asserting their "first come first served" "right" over a guy just trying to do his job.

It's not about who's "right" it's about doing the RIGHT THING~~~


Again, simply amazed...


Personally I love all the pot buoys as it keeps a large number of the yahoo's away who can't figure out how to navigate amongst them.

Just one sailors $.02
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Old 17-07-2010, 11:36   #66
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I have read this thread with a lot of interest and some amusement. I have been boating on the west coast of Canada for 35 years before that boated on lakes in the prairies since the yearly 60s. I have commercial fished out of Campbell River owning and operating my own troller. I have sailed and motored averaging over 1000 NM per year for the past 5 years as a recreational boater. I can say with some degree of certainty that ignorant and rude behaviour comes in all size and types of boats. The concept of first come first serve at a Government dock in Canada might seem to have some value, however the Government docks were built primarily for the commercial users, They pay lower moorage than the recreational user and usually get first choice at moorage. This may or not sit right with many people , but that is the way it is. If you use a Government dock in Canada rafting is a common accepted practice. If you don't want to be rafted too then you have to go to a private marina. The signage at Government docks are usually very good and explain usage. One should always check with the wharfinger as to the usage of the dock when it is marked. Municipal public docks however don't adhere to the same rules or markings. I am still not sure as to what type of public dock this was.
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Old 17-07-2010, 11:51   #67
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Originally Posted by Maine Sail View Post
Wow.... Attitudes like this make me ashamed to be a sailor. Never in a million years did I think the arrogance of recreational boaters was so rampant and wide spread.

ANY commercial guy DOING HIS JOB, while I am simply relaxing and playing, would GLADLY get that space in a split second from me. Different strokes....

As a sailor/recreational boater, AND an ex-commercial fisherman, I am simply horrified at some of the responses here...

Yup, if a commercial guy walked in to a yachties land office and started making it hard to do his job, how do you think the yachtie would respond? He would at the very least be a little ticked off.
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Old 17-07-2010, 19:16   #68
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Once again it is a public dock, everyone should get a turn. If you are done with your loading or what ever you are doing, get the hell out of there. Its not a camp site. If you need more time open that wallet and help out the local economy. It sounds like the commercial operators are in and out of there, and that is how a public dock should be used.

As for the most part commercial operators around here are a good bunch, but there are a few "pafi's" out there too.

Every time that the lobster boats from up river pass thru our mooring field it is at flank speed. It is a no wake zone on the charts with plenty of signage. You say anything to them and you get the middle finger. Some "professionals" feel they own the water and the rest of us got no business being in it.

I still give way to just about any commercial vessel that passes. Show proper courtesy and as Maine Sail says:

"It's not about who's "right" it's about doing the RIGHT THING~~~"

Well that and etiquette is a two way street. I think we all need to remember that.
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Old 18-07-2010, 06:42   #69
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Pray tell, why are commercial mariners any different than say commercial truck drivers on our public roads? They pay special fees for using publicly owned property for commercial gain. They are rigorously regulated for safety and competence and held to a much higher standard than a private motorist, and with good reason. When they drive beyond their limits, use drugs to stay awake, and overload their trucks they kill people. They do not have special privileges and obey the same rules and conventions as private cars. They do have loading zones set aside for their use and these zones are clearly marked with official signage. They are also restricted for certain areas.
Anyone who has spent some time around these drivers has long ago given up their childish hero worship an adoration.
As anyone with a boat knows, when you take money from a passenger, you and your boat come under intense scrutiny from the CG, and again with good reason. Your captain's license is not a privilege, it is a obligation to protect. Hopefully they can find a way to earn a living without pushing other boaters out of their way.
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Old 18-07-2010, 07:00   #70
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Every time that the lobster boats from up river pass thru our mooring field it is at flank speed. It is a no wake zone on the charts with plenty of signage. You say anything to them and you get the middle finger. Some "professionals" feel they own the water and the rest of us got no business being in it.

Another instance where my mono gill net potato gun could come into play to discourage this type behavior.
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Old 18-07-2010, 07:17   #71
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ANY commercial guy DOING HIS JOB, while I am simply relaxing and playing, would GLADLY get that space in a split second from me. Different strokes....
I think the important question here would be -- why would you be "relaxing and playing" at a loading dock? That is obviously unnecessary, maybe an abuse of the privilege to use that space.
If I didn't need it but hadn't left yet, yes, I would pick up and move out of the way of anyone who actually needed that space (even another recreational vessel). But if I were at an allowed loading zone, and using it for that purpose ... well, I don't agree that just because I'm not working today and you are that you automatically get to push me off the dock before I've loaded my people or things.
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Old 18-07-2010, 09:25   #72
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Unless there is specific signage, it is hard to blame someone for docking in that area.

Now I wasn't there, you say you were polite so I will give you the benefit of the doubt, their response even if they still didn't intend to move their boat should have also been polite. However because someone is using the area for commercial or private reasons, doesn't give anyone more or less entitlement then the other. Unless there was signage that indicated the area was designated for your sole use then they have as much right to park there as you. If you have made a deal unknown to the person parked there with the government then your beef is with them not the person that parked in the spot. If you knew the person was there for 3 days, why did it take so long to address the issue with the people who are in authority?

If the dock was public access, then it can be used by the public. Why should someone just take a strangers word for it, regardless of the size of craft.

My marina has assigned slips for seasonal boaters and transient slips. However after a spring clean and dock painting the numbers were painted over, there was a busy weekend and several transient boats came in, some slips including mine were used by transients, the harbor master was out and they just came in checked in with a dockand who was 16 and just couldn't be bothered to tell them they were in someones spot, we came in to find a boat in our slip, so we pulled into another slip, I went over and knocked on the hull, meet a nice guy, who apologized, but informed me he didn't do it on purpose, it was clear the slips weren't marked, he had already settled in was hooked up and already had a few drinks. Why start drama, he was correct he didn't know better there was no malice with what he did. I stayed in my new slip for the weekend, and when the habormaster returned Monday first thing was getting the slips marked. Was I happy no, was I in the right? while yes it was my slip, there was nothing to indicate it was mine, so I would say No I wasn't in the right, the marina was in the wrong for not propertly marking the slips and not having staff enforce the slips.

The same thing happened to another boater in my marina the same weekend, and things didn't go so well, there was a physical altercation, police were involved and he has now been baned from the marina.
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Old 20-07-2010, 08:36   #73
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Unless there is specific signage, it is hard to blame someone for docking in that area.

Now I wasn't there, you say you were polite so I will give you the benefit of the doubt, their response even if they still didn't intend to move their boat should have also been polite. However because someone is using the area for commercial or private reasons, doesn't give anyone more or less entitlement then the other. Unless there was signage that indicated the area was designated for your sole use then they have as much right to park there as you. If you have made a deal unknown to the person parked there with the government then your beef is with them not the person that parked in the spot. If you knew the person was there for 3 days, why did it take so long to address the issue with the people who are in authority?

If the dock was public access, then it can be used by the public. Why should someone just take a strangers word for it, regardless of the size of craft.
Exactly. Points I tried to make earlier but because I've only been a member for two and one half years, they weren't well taken by a few "older" members.
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Old 20-07-2010, 23:23   #74
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@RECKLESS

@Reckless. Just curious, if this person was in your slip and no others were available, would you have anchored out in the harbour, or explained it is yours, you pay for it and he will have to move...

Just curious
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Old 21-07-2010, 00:27   #75
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LOL, when I was a kid my great-grandfather, who was the local Coast Guard Aux. & Wharfinger of the dock in Retreat Cove, would untie any boats that were over their allotted time and push them out into the bay! I once watched as he untied a trimaran with no engine - "floating hippie house", as he called it, due to the ownership - pushed it off & it floated over to the little beach on the southside of the dock(Robin Bramble's property for those who know the place), where it sat, and they lived, for the rest of the summer, happily, because of all the blackberry bushes there. I've been friends with one of the kids from that boat for more than 40 years!

A lot of government docks in places such as this can not accomodate many boats and, come summer, our waters are full of recreational boaters, local & from south of the border. Because of this, most accept that rafting is a courtesy and most of the boaters are a harmonious lot. You do get the odd grump who seems to think that they and their boat are special, however, which really dampens the vacationing mood. As for commercial privileges, unless posted they don't exist, though most will respect their request for room. The first thing I do after mooring is go up & find the government sign, which usually tells you what the fee is, if there is a commercial area, etc. . It is important to check these signs as, in remote areas, such an area may be needed for an air or water ambulance.
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Thanks Mike. I laughed and laughed. I have found that every public dock is different and this is very good advice.

I find that when anchoring asking someone around if I'm in a reasonable spot can pay dividends. Prehaps I'm sitting where a float plane wopuld like to turn around and by the way the holding is better over there. The next thing you know you're sharing info on good crabbing spots or where to tie up the dink.

My respect for the ferry captains in BC's waters grows and grows. They have a remarkable ability to look at a channel full of boats and chart a course that respects everyones rights to be on the waters. I take inspiration from their skill and professionalism.

A little courtesy can go a long way!
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