Convenience of the metric system

[Coops]

Originally Posted by StuM

An ounce is 30 grams ( well actually 28.3495 )

You can only have 2 grams. One on your father's side and one on your mum's.

Coops.

[K_V_B]

Originally Posted by Finistere

I find imperial more natural especially when driving and doing estimates for arrival, at 60 mph usual average I will arrive in one hour.

Maybe that's why we drive faster in Europe. I usually assume an average of 120 kph, or 2km per minute.

Then there are the fifty cycles for generators which screwed up electric power compatibility all over the world, they could have left that alone.

AC is a European invention. An true American should have nothing to do with it. Edison rules :-)

[K_V_B]

Originally Posted by Benz

Your problem, KVB, is that you theorize more than you do. Rather than theorize about how circles could be divided, try taking a ruler and dividing one into even sections by drawing lines across the center as I described. Once you have, I daresay it will make sense.

No, I can do this in my head.
Now you tell me: After I've decided in in 8 sections, how many degrees does one section measures?
You're deflecting here.

Sure, in a classroom you can use spherical geometry to do theoretical navigation in any units you please, but when the rubber meets the road (or the keel meets the briny), all that classroom theorizing goes out the porthole and the value of deg/min/sec, of nautical miles and fathoms, yards and feet becomes apparent. Do sight reduction tables even exist for navigating in UTM? I'll bet not.

Again, UTM has its purpose. It is not celestial navigation. It's purpose is to make it easy to calculate distance and bearing for nearby position without having to use complicated formula.
For that purpose it works very well. I don't see UTM used a lot outside of the army.

You're now making an argument similar to "a spanner is a bad tool because it sucks at sawing".

Is there a nautical almanac that gives ephemeris in anything other than right ascention and declination (in deg/min)? Never seen one.

I know that they don't exist. Mostly because the only persons doing geospatial calculations in metres and "grade" are surveyors in some continental European countries. And they don't use a nautical almanac as it isn't accurate enough.
But my point is only that, in a parallel universe where we would use the meter and the grade for navigation the formulas would remain the same, and the problem would be probably a bit less complex as you wouldn't need to convert back and forth between D.M.S and decimal degrees.
I'm not saying that we should do this. I'm just trying to make the point here that inherently the nautical mile isn't "more sensible" then the metre.

Theoretically, the Russians could have put men on the moon. Actually, they did not. There is a vast gulf fixed between theory and reality, and you evidently have not crossed it yet.

No, the Russians could not have put a man on the moon. It has nothing to do with systems of measurement.
The Russians simply didn't have the resources to go to the moon because their political system crippled their economy.

Charts are not in Metric. Why would you say something so stupid?

Because I've been involved in making charts and maps. I'm a surveyor by education, and made my final dissertation on the (then nascent) GPS system. If my life would have only taken a different turn I would now probably be working for the Belgian or Dutch hydrographic authority, or one of the big dredging multis. In stead I fell for a woman living in a landlocked country and ended up sailing lakes, making passages on other people's boats and dreaming of cruising...

Nevertheless, I have a lot knowledge about the theory behind map and chart making, about navigation and the theory of determining one's position, probably more then most sailors.
When I first started looking at GPS the charts we had didn't yet use WGS84, and I had to write a program to convert the coordinates myself.

I will not claim to be very experienced in the practice however.

Whatever paradigm they have now crammed datums into, most of the information on most charts comes from surveys that are centuries old in some cases. In Newfoundland the charts created by Captain Cook and later French whalers and explorers, who measured depths in fathoms (with a piece of string!) and had never imagined a UTM grid are in high demand, because they are in every respect better than the modern charts put out by the Canadian government with depths not re-surveyed, but converted to meters from Captain Cook's fathom soundings! At least they are still in degrees.....

Looking at the maps of the North Sea area lately I saw quite a bit of evidence of the area having been thoroughly resurveyed. To the point that bottom contours are now actually to detailed...
With modern technology surveying an area in high detail in a short time without needing a lot of manpower is quite easy.

My friend, the real world is a far cry from the idealized laboratory and classroom settings in which the metric system has it's shining moment. Let the scientists measure their milliamps and split their atoms in whatever unit they wish. We who have voyaged, and built, and gotten things done beyond theories will continue to do so the proper way.

My friend, in the real world most people use the metric system.

Originally Posted by sailorchic34

Ah, love bowditch, and yes now it is, as defied by many intergovernmental committees. Though the original intent was that a nautical mile was one minute or arc on any meridian. It was not really a measurement in feet/meters but a measurement of arc. Still quite handy and yes I use it. That it varies depending on where one sails, worries me not at all.

As originally intended the metre was also defined as a useful fraction of an arc measured on the surface of the earth. Later, for more accuracy it was redefined in a different way.

However, someone in this thread insists on finding this a silly notion, which is why I pointed out that for the nautical mile exactly the same thing was done.

[Wotname]

Hmm... a reminder for some of our USA friends.
The metric system is a standardised system and among other units, use the metre for distance and litre for volume.

Meters and liters are used for other things

[Coops]

A meter could be used for measuring metres though.

Coops.

[Sand crab]

I'm a snow skier and the biggest resort in the US is nearby. When we get a foot of snow you know it's going to be a good day. 30.48 cm just doesn't sound right.

It's snowing now.

[carstenb]

Originally Posted by Sand crab

I'm a snow skier and the biggest resort in the US is nearby. When we get a foot of snow you know it's going to be a good day. 30.48 cm just doesn't sound right.

It's snowing now.

yeah - but inthe alps when they say "the snow is down to 800 meters" you know it's going to be great up top

[Canibul]

I dunno. I just don't think the National Kilometerball League is going to work out for us up in Dallas. Maybe for them bozos in Denver, they have funny laws up there.

[Canibul]

Originally Posted by Wotname

Hmm... a reminder for some of our USA friends.
The metric system is a standardised system and among other units, use the metre for distance and litre for volume.

Meters and liters are used for other things

Met-truh and Lee-truh? Nah. Forgeddaboutit. Ain't gonna happen.

[Finistere]

Originally Posted by StuM

An ounce is 30 grams ( well actually 28.3495 )

I was referring to the comment that in Amsterdam if you order a pound of something you get half a kilo, if you order an ounce (ons) you get 100 grams.


Sent from my iPad using Cruisers Sailing Forum

[HappyMdRSailor]

Originally Posted by Ex-Calif

Hmmm...

Effing a kid on an English paper for a physics "mistake" seems a bit harsh. Especially as the physics mistake may not be a mistake at all.

It wasn't the kid... It was the PRINTED TEXT from the school grammar paper... There was a blank for the correct tense to be filled in... The F was for the teacher who wrote the page...

Originally Posted by StuM

An ounce is 30 grams ( well actually 28.3495 )

HA HA!

Originally Posted by Wotname

Hmm... a reminder for some of our USA friends.
The metric system is a standardised system and among other units, use the metre for distance and litre for volume.

Meters and liters are used for other things

That's why they call it SI in engineering...
The SI system (International System of Units) is the modern metric system of measurement and the dominant system of international commerce and trade.

Originally Posted by Coops

A meter could be used for measuring metres though.

Coops.

HAAAA!!!

Originally Posted by Canibul

I dunno. I just don't think the National Kilometerball League is going to work out for us up in Dallas. Maybe for them bozos in Denver, they have funny laws up there.

No way this is going to catch on...

[GordMay]

How would one convert this to Imperial?

One day, Einstein, Newton, and Pascal meet up and decide to play a game of hide and seek. Einstein volunteered to be “It.”
As Einstein counted, eyes closed, to 100, Pascal ran away and hid, but Newton stood right in front of Einstein and drew a one meter by one meter square on the floor around himself.
When Einstein opened his eyes, he immediately saw Newton and said “I found you Newton."
Newton replied: “No, you found one Newton per square meter.
You found Pascal!”.

[HappyMdRSailor]

Originally Posted by GordMay

How would one convert this to Imperial?

One day, Einstein, Newton, and Pascal meet up and decide to play a game of hide and seek. Einstein volunteered to be “It.”
As Einstein counted, eyes closed, to 100, Pascal ran away and hid, but Newton stood right in front of Einstein and drew a one meter by one meter square on the floor around himself.
When Einstein opened his eyes, he immediately saw Newton and said “I found you Newton."
Newton replied: “No, you found one Newton per square meter.
You found Pascal!”.

You're in high gear now man!!! Keep it up!

[StuM]

Originally Posted by Finistere

I was referring to the comment that in Amsterdam if you order a pound of something you get half a kilo, if you order an ounce (ons) you get 100 grams.

I wasn't aware of that.

You should learn something new every day.
Thank you for today's lesson

Wikipedia tells me:

"Metric ounces

The unit metric ounce is 25 grams[where?][5] and 20 make the metric pound of 500 grams.

Some countries have redefined their ounces in the metric system.[6] For example, the German apothecaries ounce of 30 grams, is very close to the previously widespread Nuremberg ounce, but the divisions and multiples come out in metric.

In 1820, the Dutch redefined their ounce (in Dutch, ons) as 100 grams.[7][8] Dutch amendments to the metric system, such as an ons or 100 grams, has been inherited, adopted, and taught in Indonesia beginning in elementary school. It is also listed as standard usage in Indonesia's national dictionary, the Kamus Besar Bahasa Indonesia, and the government's official elementary‐school curriculum.[9]"

[K_V_B]

Originally Posted by Finistere

I was referring to the comment that in Amsterdam if you order a pound of something you get half a kilo, if you order an ounce (ons) you get 100 grams.

Don't order an ounce of weed in Amsterdam though. You'll get in trouble.