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Old 27-08-2008, 21:08   #406
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Oxford !!!!
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Old 27-08-2008, 21:15   #407
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Old 28-08-2008, 02:16   #408
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Old 28-08-2008, 02:32   #409
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Well I gota hand it to us greenies....we are so clever and powerful that we have knocked off the coal industry the petro chemical industry, most government agency's all because we want the grant money... But gee I see we dont fool the clever ones here...you got us....it was the grant money after all....Oh the power of desperate scientists for a job....so much so that they completely changed global thinking...against billions of dollars of investment.....
Hey you gota admit its a good one though....I mean just imagine if it was true....the consequence would be enormous and the failure to act would strip more money out of the global system than has ever happened before. Whole nations could disappear under water, and whole countries could face economic ruin. Large numbers of species could be wiped out due to habitat loss . But I am really glad that I have been put right and that its just a big plot to assure grant money. Oh well I guess I will go and continue to piss it up against the wall...
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Old 28-08-2008, 05:45   #410
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Australian National University. Mathematics and plant physiology.

There is plenty of energy coming from the sun. Check out the latest solar thermal technology, including the storage of it.
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Old 28-08-2008, 05:50   #411
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Ausra aims to build biggest solar thermal plant, raises $40M » VentureBeat


Check out this for solar thermal. A friend of mine was doing his PhD on the thermodynamics of the tubes
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Old 28-08-2008, 07:20   #412
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And so it goes, if these scientists are only after a continuation of a grant...to justify their lives work, it would make them one of the most immoral professions in the world. I just dont buy that. If the majority of opinion is in favour, and a few are against, AND if following the suggestions of the majority does little harm, except to impinge on a few well doing life styles, whats the problem? The implementations of the suggestions are going to benifit 70 per cent of the worlds population. The ones that dont have internet. WHY at the very least it will force us...the wealthy nations to slow down with the FINITE usage of the present carbon based resources. Perhaps to share it around. Perhaps to put a real values on it. Not just what you use but wat you leave for someone else to sort out afterwards. Sad thing is , its not rocket science...Make a mess....you have to clean it up....
The resource sector is naturally a little worried that their products may lose value. It is in their interest to keep a lid on the "situation" . Just imagine what would happen to share prices if it was legislated that if you use....you are responsible to clean up....
The coal industry would be dead over night....other power systems would be thrown into the spot light.
The nuclear industry would suffer the same fate....."Yep 25 cents per killo watt hour" plus the look after the redundant station and waste for the next few hundred years surcharge of ...XXX per killowatt hour.
Someone has to pay....
Its just wrong that we have the attitude that the planet will continue to absorb everything.....
AND NOT CHANGE...time to grow up....you cant keep trashing your bed room without mummy getting pissed off....its selfish,..!

and to those unbelievable people who keep talking about "economics",
The planet is a "CLOSED SYSTEM". It is finite and definite. It does not have the luxury of a rearrangement of fiscal policy to suit. When you wreck it , Its wrecked, when you use it up its gone, ...it is not a video game where you can press restart,....
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Old 28-08-2008, 08:36   #413
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Whom to believe?

More to the point, how do we decide whom to believe?

What influences how we choose whom to believe?

It makes about as much sense to ask most cruisers what they think about the science of climate change, as it does to ask patients what they think of various artery graft options in heart bypass surgery.
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Old 28-08-2008, 08:44   #414
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Whom to believe?

More to the point, how do we decide whom to believe?

What influences how we choose whom to believe?

It makes about as much sense to ask most cruisers what they think about the science of climate change, as it does to ask patients what they think of various artery graft options in heart bypass surgery.
However, if I were a patient being recommended heart bypass surgery or any other procedure, I would inquire about the evidence substantiating the diagnosis.

If there were no physical evidence, such as an ADHD diagnosis, I wouldn't blindly follow any expert especially if they were recommending that I give my son hallucinogenic drugs.

I certainly am not going to blindly follow climate "experts" that are recommending that we transfer our National Sovereignty to bodies like the UN.
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Old 28-08-2008, 08:49   #415
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Draw your own conclusions.................

Roy W. Spencer: Global Warming and Nature's Thermostat
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Old 28-08-2008, 09:24   #416
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Just one more reason to own a boat. . . .
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Old 28-08-2008, 09:47   #417
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And draw your own conclusions from this.....
Roy Spencer | DeSmogBlog
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Old 28-08-2008, 11:15   #418
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OK - We could go on for ever "my expert says this, your expert says that". In my final contribution to this thread I'd just like to reiterate the following:-

Climate is complex, there are lots of unknowns and lots of uncertainties. Climate scientists readily acknowledge we don't know evrything regarding potential feedback mechanisms. Consequently we can't predict the future climate with absolute accuracy, but we can infer liklihood regarding future impacts based on our current understanding, itself based on observational data and modelling. At the end of the day modelling is interpretation based on simplification and it should be aimed at addressing specific questions. You can always nit-pick a model. Climate variability is a natural process - some years are warmer than others, some decades are warmer than others, some centuries are warmer than others etc. The Earth's precession, obliquity and eccentricity affect climate in the longer term. Some argue that solar cycles also affect it as well, including in the short-term. The scientific consensus is that we are having a significant impact on that natural variability. Here is a useful site regarding consensus: Scientific opinion on climate change - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

So at the end of the day, and if you didn't know any better, who do you trust? A scientist who believes in water divining and likes the sound of his own voice, a scientist paid research money by Exxon, a reputable lone-voice scientist with a legitimate concern which questions a building block but doesn't bring the house down? Or the Joint Science Acadamies, the WMO, ESF, etc. etc. Your own background is going to flavour your answer to that question. Are politically you left or right leaning? Do you believe the Government and/or big business is out to curtail your freedom of speech? Are those damned foreigners going to screw you over with their anti-competetive advantages based on inefficient use of hydrocarbon resources? Do you think all scientists are only interested in the next research grant?
Basically I respect your opinion whatever it is - you're entitled to it. But I don't believe the earth was created in 4004 BC and I do believe that we have altered the natural climatic state. Also that we're not ready for the inevitable consequenses.
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Old 28-08-2008, 11:47   #419
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Yeah, I'm tired of answering the same four questions again and again, then being accused of being part of a conspiracy I wouldn't profit from. Honestly, if you're so far gone that you think the laws of physics don't apply to anthropogenic gasses, cigarettes don't cause cancer, and the Earth is less than 7000 years old, and magical... I can't help you.
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Old 28-08-2008, 12:32   #420
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... I certainly am not going to blindly follow climate "experts" that are recommending that we transfer our National Sovereignty to bodies like the UN.
From your contributions, it appears that the only scientist you might believe would be a conservative, capitalist, nationalist, anti-government, anti-UN, defeatist ( we can't affect climate), optimist (what’s the worst that can happen).

These represent an impressive list of scientific credentials.
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