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12-08-2013, 05:04
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#271
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Senior Cruiser
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Chesapeake Bay
Boat: Sabre 28-2
Posts: 3,197
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Re: Climate Change
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike OReilly
So it's less about being addicted, and more about simple limitations. Lions can't fly airplanes, spiders don't walk on two legs, and perhaps humans can't manage geographically large and disparate problems. It's just the kind of animals we've evolved to be.
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Yes. What's amazing is that these hairless apes, evolved with a brain to hunt cooperatively, with a high degree of social and environmental awareness, have been able to use that hunter brain to discover not only our place in the universe but the very origins of the universe itself.
But, as you say, our adaptability isn't limitless and maybe seemingly simpler problems -- such as managing global resources cooperatively -- is just beyond our capacity. That would be tragic, indeed.
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12-08-2013, 05:08
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#272
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cruiser
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: medusa NY
Boat: Tayana Surprise 45 schooner "Union Pacific"
Posts: 2,097
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Re: Climate Change
Quote:
Originally Posted by sneuman
Yes. What's amazing is that these hairless apes, evolved with a brain to hunt cooperatively, with a high degree of social and environmental awareness, have been able to use that hunter brain to discover not only our place in the universe but the very origins of the universe itself.
But, as you say, our adaptability isn't limitless and maybe seemingly simpler problems -- such as managing global resources cooperatively -- is just beyond our capacity. That would be tragic, indeed.
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lol wait, we are apes and discovered the origins of the universe? LOL
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12-08-2013, 05:08
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#273
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Nearly an old salt
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Lefkas Marina ,Greece
Boat: Bavaria 36
Posts: 22,801
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Re: Climate Change
Quote:
Originally Posted by sneuman
Yes. What's amazing is that these hairless apes, evolved with a brain to hunt cooperatively on the African veldt with a high degree of social and environmental awareness have been able to use that brain to discover not only our place in the universe but the very origins of the universe itself. But, as you say, our adaptability isn't limitless and maybe seemingly much simpler problems -- such as managing global resources cooperatively -- is just beyond our possibilities.
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Its not beyond our possibilities, what happens is that until the effects clearly demonstrate themselves, ie your house starts to float away, to enough people, then we can act collectively and can sort such problems.
In other words, humans are 11th-hour merchants.
dave
__________________
Interested in smart boat technology, networking and all things tech
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12-08-2013, 05:15
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#274
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cruiser
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Probably in an anchorage or a boatyard..
Boat: Ebbtide 33' steel cutter
Posts: 5,030
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goboatingnow
Its not beyond our possibilities, what happens is that until the effects clearly demonstrate themselves, ie your house starts to float away, to enough people, then we can act collectively and can sort such problems.
In other words, humans are 11th-hour merchants.
dave
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Is there any evidence of this at a species level?
Someone on Easter island still chopped down the last tree...
CFC's don't really count as it was such an easy fix.
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12-08-2013, 05:27
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#275
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Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Good question
Boat: Rafiki 37
Posts: 14,140
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Re: Climate Change
Quote:
Originally Posted by goboatingnow
Its not beyond our possibilities, what happens is that until the effects clearly demonstrate themselves, ie your house starts to float away, to enough people, then we can act collectively and can sort such problems.
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Agreed. It's what I said a few posts back as well Dave. We won't act until we have to -- just like all other animals. When we hit those barriers we'll do something -- just like all other animals. The problem is that by the time enough of us feel the pain, the system may already be (will likely be) out of our control.
A freighter doesn't stop when you apply the reverse engines. It takes a long time to make a course change.
Global climate systems are really big freighters.
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12-08-2013, 05:44
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#276
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Nearly an old salt
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Lefkas Marina ,Greece
Boat: Bavaria 36
Posts: 22,801
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Re: Climate Change
Quote:
Originally Posted by conachair
Is there any evidence of this at a species level?
Someone on Easter island still chopped down the last tree...
CFC's don't really count as it was such an easy fix.
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where man, does not perceive negative or detrimental side effects , then things continue till nothing is left. This is true of any resource.
However if cutting down trees resulting in the Easter Islanders running short of air, then I bet you , theyd have stopped.
we are at the base of it simple animals, driven by need and controlled by fear.
dave
__________________
Interested in smart boat technology, networking and all things tech
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12-08-2013, 05:59
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#277
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cruiser
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: medusa NY
Boat: Tayana Surprise 45 schooner "Union Pacific"
Posts: 2,097
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Re: Climate Change
meh, we survived the dinosaurs, we will survive 300ppm CO2
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12-08-2013, 06:13
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#279
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Registered User
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Lake Ont
Posts: 8,547
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Re: Climate Change
Quote:
Originally Posted by sneuman
our adaptability isn't limitless and maybe seemingly simpler problems -- such as managing global resources cooperatively -- is just beyond our capacity.
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Our adaptability IS limitless. Put another way, humans have NOT yet hit their limits to adapt. That whole ability to think in the abstract thing. To the extent that we can think about and predict the future consequences of present actions, we are OUTSIDE of nature. Throwing one's hands up and saying "oh well, that's what we do, it's our nature" is a cop-out.
The current climate change "debate" is very very simple: You have virtually an entire branch of science who have said the following:
- they've identified physical changes in our environment that are directly attributable to human activity, and
- to the best of their ability they've told us what they think is probably going to happen.
Arrayed against this is the money and PR muscle of large industries who make huge profits from the current and projected future levels of of energy sales and consumption.
Long story short - by getting the average person to suddenly doubt the utility of science, or the scientists' motives, this massive lobbying effort has succeeded in creating the false impression that there is a genuine debate about the science, and therefore what to do about the problem. We can't start discussing solutions if we still think there's uncertainty over what's happening.
Statement #1 is beyond dispute. #2 is of course subject to further discussion, but if we can't get past arguing about #1, we can't get to #2.
So - a win for the fossil-fuel lobby and friends, aided and abetted by some right-wingers who can't stand any diktat to reduce consumption, pay taxes or to take collective action.
If anyone doubts the power of corporate interests versus scientific truth, just look how long it took to out cigarettes as a cause of cancer, and to start doing something about it.
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12-08-2013, 06:16
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#280
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Registered User
Join Date: May 2013
Location: West Palm Beach
Boat: Leopard 40
Posts: 365
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Re: Climate Change
Quote:
Originally Posted by scoobert
meh, we survived the dinosaurs, we will survive 300ppm CO2
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We? Humans? Not with dinosaurs.
No doubt the planet will survive 300ppm - there have been several mass extinctions (90+ of the species) in the past with just enough species to adapt and thrive. It would likely happen again, that is true.
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12-08-2013, 06:27
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#281
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: between the devil and the deep blue sea
Boat: a sailing boat
Posts: 20,420
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Re: Climate Change
Quote:
Originally Posted by jackdale
(...) I think we should use 1993 as a starting point, Pinatubo and all. Better yet 1985.
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Does not matter because good use of analytical tools will easily identify the outliers and either discard or discount them.
For the ignoranti, it is safest to pick up a mid-point for their homebrew guesses.
If talking climate change, you want max time horizon = max data points. Otherwise we are not talking climate.
b.
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12-08-2013, 06:40
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#282
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cruiser
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: medusa NY
Boat: Tayana Surprise 45 schooner "Union Pacific"
Posts: 2,097
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Re: Climate Change
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShaktiGurl
We? Humans? Not with dinosaurs.
No doubt the planet will survive 300ppm - there have been several mass extinctions (90+ of the species) in the past with just enough species to adapt and thrive. It would likely happen again, that is true.
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indeed with dinosaurs. science club does not just lie about global warming.
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12-08-2013, 06:55
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#284
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cruiser
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Probably in an anchorage or a boatyard..
Boat: Ebbtide 33' steel cutter
Posts: 5,030
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goboatingnow
where man, does not perceive negative or detrimental side effects , then things continue till nothing is left. This is true of any resource.
However if cutting down trees resulting in the Easter Islanders running short of air, then I bet you , theyd have stopped.
we are at the base of it simple animals, driven by need and controlled by fear.
dave
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I reckon the guys on Easter island knew it was the eleventh hour. .....
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12-08-2013, 07:02
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#285
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Senior Cruiser
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: PORTUGAL
Posts: 30,584
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Re: Climate Change
Quote:
Originally Posted by conachair
I reckon the guys on Easter island knew it was the eleventh hour. .....
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Naah... just got sick of Sushi and buga'd orf....
__________________
It was a dark and stormy night and the captain of the ship said.. "Hey Jim, spin us a yarn." and the yarn began like this.. "It was a dark and stormy night.."
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